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Messages - SxN

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1
News and Events / Re: Mists over Carcassonne
« on: June 16, 2023, 07:47:18 PM »
For North Americans, if it helps: I purchased my copy (Z-Man) 6-7 weeks ago from GameShack, a store in Toronto, ON. I was at the physical store, but I believe they also ship around (for a fee)

2
General / Little find
« on: February 10, 2023, 05:12:31 PM »
Found this board games website:

boardgames.com

However, do not try to use it in this "raw" form; for some mysterious reason it will redirect you to amazon.com. Instead, click here:

https://boardgames.com/browse

Almost all the games that I found here are also in BGG. However, searching is different: in BGG, the search is done against the game's name. Here, it is done against the game's description.

I performed a search for, yes, you guessed it, Carcassonne. The results included the HiG games, official expansions, many fan expansions, including "The Constable" (Il Constabile), in original Italian and with a decent English translation (but not the best). I haven't seen this expansion anywhere else.

I also got to know many Carcassonne-inspired games. Kar-kas-onn is one such game for which I'm in contact with the author; perhaps will present it here at a later date.

There will be some references to Carcassonne that have nothing to do with this game, but not many. I think it is worth paying a visit, then cross-referencing with BGG.

3
General / Re: On etsy
« on: January 17, 2023, 05:44:27 AM »
Done :)

Also, I like the distinction between "expansion" and "fan expansion". HiG has a super open licence, allowing forums like this and its sisters to exist and thrive. Other authors are not so generous (and it is not necessarily that they're "bad"; each author is free to decide how to disseminate their own creative work).

4
General / On etsy
« on: January 15, 2023, 07:31:55 PM »
Stumbled over this posting:URL-REMOVED. I believe this violates HiG's rules (same for the sale of another, accessible from the same location)

5
General / Re: Looking for fake tiles
« on: May 07, 2022, 07:42:32 AM »
Thank you both!

6
General / Looking for fake tiles
« on: May 06, 2022, 06:40:24 PM »
I'm having a conversation with KlausiMausi on CarcF. Does anyone know about "fake tiles" by Novelty? If so, can you point us the right way?

Thanks!

7
Hi Decar,

As we're fast approaching the 7.5 years anniversary of the meetup, I was wondering if you would consider sharing with the rest of us the Chronicles of Carcassonne...  ::)

8
Strategy Guide / Re: Project 1A: Carcassonne Game Notation
« on: March 27, 2022, 08:55:08 PM »
I'm afraid I was not able to put my thoughts on paper in a concise way, so I ended up generating the attached pdf. Please consider it an invitation to discussion.

9
Unofficial Rules / Re: Scoreboard in the center of the table.
« on: March 24, 2022, 06:44:13 PM »
Thanks PapaGeek, +1 merit from me

10
Strategy Guide / Re: Project 1A: Carcassonne Game Notation
« on: March 20, 2022, 03:40:27 PM »
Chess notations comes in many flavours: you can specify Qc4 with the meaning of Queen moves from current position to c4, or Qc2-c4, meaning Queen moves from c2 (which is the current position) to c4. Back in the day, when I was playing chess competitionally in Romania, I was thought to write my same move as Dc4, D standing for the Romanian "Dama". Same principle as in English, but localized.

However, the same move can be easily "internationalized": c2-c4 (with or without dash). In notations that designate what moves, this would be a pawn move, but you can avoid specifying the figure with a language-specific letter by implying "whatever is on c2 moves to c4". No Q, no D, no nothing.

At the end of the day, using the "r" symbol for road, or using the "|" symbol (or any other) is just a matter of convention and agreement. But it does give an "associative advantage" to an Anglophone who can associate "r" with road. For a Czech the word, I believe, is "cest" - no "r" there. For a Romanian (go Marian Curcan, go!), the word is "drum". For a Greek it is "dromos", but spelled in a different alphabet, for a German (these guys invented the game) it is "Weg" - mandatory capital for nouns. I think this illustrates why I use "associative advantage" for English speakers.

My proposal is to use the principles proposed so far, but change a bit the symbols, trying to make them universal.

The other thing is that it would be easier to parse a game by a computer if the field separator is consistently the same.

Please allow me a few days to crystalize this vague comments into a concrete proposal and let's discuss from there.

As for translations... I think this notation can be useful to many globally. It has the potential to become the official way of recording games in championships, which means, in my mind, to make it available to the largest audience possible.

I hope these sound good.

11
Strategy Guide / Re: Project 1A: Carcassonne Game Notation
« on: March 19, 2022, 10:23:37 PM »
I was going to ask if I can get permission to translate the notation system in other languages, then it dawned on me: the system, as it stands now, may come fairly easy to English speakers, but that won't be true for the rest of the world.

As I had in mind the groups that play Carcassonne competitively - they would be a natural beneficiary of a notation system - I think it would be good if it can be made language agnostic. The game itself did manage that

12
Strategy Guide / Re: Project 1A: Carcassonne Game Notation
« on: March 15, 2022, 02:10:16 PM »
Just discovered this thread and, all I can say is: Thanks DIN0.

+1 merit from me

14
General / Re: New uses of the Travel Edition
« on: March 03, 2022, 08:26:12 AM »
May be related to the war in Ukraine... I don't have access either

Changing my tune: seems that I have access sometimes, just need to wait and retry. I still think this is a collateral victim of the war

15
General / New uses of the Travel Edition
« on: February 26, 2022, 07:13:41 AM »
From the makers of Carcassonne came in 2007 Travel Carcassonne: a miniaturized version of the basic game in C1 graphics. For comparison, the regular tiles are sized at 45 x 45 mm; the travel edition at 35 x 35 mm. Regular followers are about 16 mm tall and 16 mm wide; the mini-meeples are reduced to 12 x 12 mm.

In 2012 there was a reprint of the game, however, officially there were no expansions made for this edition. Fans took it on themselves to "miniaturize" several expansions an augment the Travel Edition: https://boardgamer.ru/forum/index.php?topic=5565.0.

This edition is probably played less than the original one, and rightly so: most of us spend the majority of the year in their home town and travel only occasionally. But the game is there all the time... so Carcassonne enthusiasts have come with ways of integrating the mini-meeples (minis from now on) in the regular game.

I found 13 variants/expansions, some of them presented rather as an idea, a what-if, while others as finished and quite elaborate expansions.

In this posting I will focus only on the use of minis, although some expansions may have more elements. I will include the source as well, maybe you'll want to try the variant.

In English alphabetical order, here they are:

1. Apprentice
Authors/Contributors: Scott V
Published on: BGG
Number of minis introduced: up to 100 tiles, 1. Up to 200 tiles, 2. And so on...
Gameplay
    Tile placement: usual way
    Mini deployment: deploy on free feature, occupying it.
    In-game scoring: alone, cannot score (see cloister below), otherwise has the strength of 0.5 meeple.
                                On cloister it is a Novice and scores alone, 5 points
    Extra Step: Can return in owner's hand at end of turn, even from City of Carcassonne
    Final scoring: A Novice gets half the points rounded down
Interactions
    Count, King & Robber: Can visit the City of Carcassonne
    Traders & Builders: A Pig or Builder of same colour may be placed on a feature with a lone Apprentice
    Princess & Dragon: Can be eaten by the dragon.
                                    Can be protected by Fairy
                                    Can be seduced by Princess
                                    Can use a Magic Portal
    Tower: Towers can capture Apprentices. The prisoner exchange is the same, but the optional ransom is 2 points instead of 3
                Cannot be used to "cap" towers
    Abbey & Mayor: In a city without pennants, a Mayor and an Apprentice of same colour count as a Knight
    Phantom: A Phantom cannot be placed in the same time with an Apprentice
    Wheel of Fortune: Cannot ride the Wheel of Fortune
    Gingerbread Man: Cannot get points from Gingerbread Man
    The Plague: Can die of Plague
    Crop Circles: Can use a Crop Circle

2. Apprentices
Authors/Contributors: crasher
Published on: BGG
Number of minis introduced: number of players
Gameplay
    Tile placement: usual way
    Mini deployment: Deploy on features where you already have meeples, but no mini
    In-game scoring: By themselves, 0 strength. If the others are in tie, minis number may break the tie
Interactions
    Count, King & Robber: Cannot visit the City of Carcassonne
    Princess & Dragon: Can be eaten by the dragon.
                                    If the last Knight of a player is removed from a city by a Princess, all Apprentices on that city are then returned as well.
                                    Cannot use the Magic Gate
    Tower: Cannot be taken prisoner by towers
                Cannot be used to "cap" towers
    Cathars: A player may use an adjacent cloister to affect the escape of a Squire in a besieged city

3. Baby Boom
Authors/Contributors: Dave
Published on: CarC
Number of minis introduced: Start with none, can add one: once in game, if you won a city with two meeples, may give up the points and get the mini
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Usual way
    Mini deployment: When available, play like regular meeple
    In-game scoring: Score like regular meeple
    Final scoring: Score like regular meeple

4. Carcassong of Ice and Fire
Authors/Contributors: Fritz_Spinne
Published on: CarF
Number of minis introduced: 1
Other relevant new material: 8 strength tokens
                                                 1 Princess meeple
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Standard rules are augmented
    Mini deployment: Deploy the usual way
    In-game scoring: Current strength is marked by token. Starts from 0.5 and grows by 0.5 with every city the halfling helped win.
                                In capital, strength increases by 0.5

Interactions
    Traders & Builders: The Builder can be used on a street or city that has only one child
    Princess & Dragon: Cannot be seduced by Princess (on tile or meeple)

5. Dwarves in Mines
Authors/Contributors: kettlefish
Published on: CarF
Number of minis introduced: 1
Gameplay
    Extra Step: Miner receives one ore unit, then moves to next mining area
    Tile placement: Usual way
    Mini deployment: Deploy as regular meeple or in mine
    Extra Step: If scoring meeple lands on dark field, can place miner. If miner is already placed, return miner to hand.

6. Family Planning
Authors/Contributors: Fritz_Spinne
Published on: CarF
Number of minis introduced: 4-5 on the side, depending on expansions and other meeple distribution. The rules are more specific
Gameplay
    Extra Step: A childless married couple gets a child on the feature. Farmers' child can stay as Farmer or go in player's supply.
    Tile placement: Usual way. If connecting a lonely child to a “free” adult, education begins and adult is now “busy” (one pupil per adult)
    Mini deployment: Deploy the usual way
    In-game scoring: Alone, strength 0. Beside an adult, 0.5.
    Extra Step: If scoring in a closed feature and adults are available, child is replaced by adult, otherwise returns in player's supply
Interactions
    Count, King & Robber: Cannot visit the City of Carcassonne
    Traders & Builders: The Builder cannot be used on a street or city that has only one child
    Princess & Dragon: Can be eaten by the dragon.
                                    Can be protected by Fairy
                                    Can be seduced by Princess
                                    Can use magic portal
    Tower: Can be removed by Tower, but return in player's supply
                Cannot be used to "cap" towers
    Wheel of Fortune: Cannot ride the Wheel of Fortune and is not affected by it
    The Plague: Cannot die of Plague
    Crop Circles: Can use a Crop Circle
    Flying Machines: Can be used as flier. If landing beside a “free” adult, education begins
    Catapult: The Seduce token replaces a child with child
    Bridges, Castles & Bazaars: Small towns with only one child cannot be converted into a Castle
    Gold Mines: Alone or not, is involved in the distribution of the gold pieces
    Mage & Witch: Closing a feature with a lonely child and a Mage gives the bonus points (but not the base ones)
    In the stocks (Jonathan Warren): cannot be pillored
    The Gallows (Jonathan Warren): cannot be hanged
    Carcassonne Prison (Kevin Graham): escape capture and return to player's supply.
    Jousting Tournament (Jonathan Warren): do not take part in the knight tournament
    Archery Tournament (Scott): can participate in the archery tournament
    Farmer in the Dell (Carcking): If a meadow is counted as a farm in the valley, a child can finish their training.
    The Kids are Growing Up (Patrik Wikström): The children are growing up differently in this expansion. You can also take over the rule for having children from this family planning extension.
                                                                            It is then recommended that the children who have grown up be taken out of the game and not put aside.

7. Follo-wee
Authors/Contributors: Dennison Milenkaya
                                      James Searles
Published on: BGG
Number of minis introduced: 2 + # of players
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Usual way.
    Mini deployment: Deploy on any feature on any tile if that feature segment is free. Cannot deploy on farm or cloister
    In-game scoring: When the feature is closed, the player with the majority scores as usual minus the segment occupied by an opponent Follo-wee
    Extra Step: After scoring, do not return in hand (get out of game)
Interactions
    Traders & Builders: Commodity is not awarded if Follo-wee on it
    Inns & Cathedrals: Inn or Cathedral occupied by Follo-wee is cancelled (in game and end of game)

8. Inns and Stables Owners
Authors/Contributors: ShadowP68
Published on: CarC
Needed expansion: Inns & Cathedrals
Number of minis introduced: 4
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Usual way.
    In-game scoring: Points for Inn, bonus for road.
                                Points for completed Stable, bonus for livestock.
    Extra Step: Can deploy an Inn or Stable Owner on the freshly placed tile (second wood move)
    Final scoring: Unfinished structures do not award extension's points

9. Minimeeple use
Authors/Contributors: Kolja Geldmacher
                                      The Apostle Green
Published on: BGG
Number of minis introduced: 4, replace one regular meeple
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Usual way.
    Mini deployment: Deploy on a free feature, or one populated only by minis; or deploy on occupied feature, but cannot have more than two if non-minis are already present
    In-game scoring: 3 minis are needed to count as one regular, otherwise they count as 0 and cannot score

10. Pied Piper
Authors/Contributors: Quevy
Published on: CarC
Number of minis introduced: 2, replace 2 regular meeples
Gameplay
    Extra Step: Pied Piper move triggered by rat. If encountering a child, either pay 2 points, or return child to inventory
    Tile placement: Usual way.
    Mini deployment: Deploy and use like regular meeple
    In-game scoring: Strength 0.5

11. Temptress
Authors/Contributors: Roscoe
Published on: CarC
Number of minis introduced: 1
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Usual way.
    Mini deployment: Deploy on a tile directly adjacent orthogonally, and on the same feature as a normal meeple of the same colour
    In-game scoring: Strength 0.5
    Final scoring: Strength 0.5

12. The Kids Are Growing Up
Authors/Contributors: Patrik Wikström
Published on: CarC
Number of minis introduced: 2, replace initially 2 regular meeples
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Usual way.
    Mini deployment: Deploy on feature where you already have regular meeple. Cannot be placed on farm or cloister
    In-game scoring: By themselves, 0 strength. If the others are in tie, minis number may break the tie. The majority owner gets 1 bonus point per tile for one child, 3 points for both in the
                                same closed structure.
    Extra Step: For player who scored the feature, children freshly returned can be exchanged for adults (the children are removed from game)
    Final scoring: Unfinished structures do not award extension's points
Interactions
    Count, King & Robber: Cannot visit the City of Carcassonne
    Princess & Dragon: Cannot be eaten by dragon, but, if left orphan due to dragon, returns in player's supply.
                                    Can be protected by Fairy
    Tower: Can be removed by Tower, but return in player's supply. If left orphan due to Tower, returns in player's supply
    Carcassonne Prison (Kevin Graham): Cannot be taken prisoner
    Jousting Tournament (Jonathan Warren): do not take part in the knight tournament

13. Wishing Well
Authors/Contributors: Novelty
Published on: CarC
Recommended expansion: Wells
Number of minis introduced: 2 if played by itself
                                                  6 if combined with Inns and Stables Owners
                                                  Revised rule if combined with The Kids Are Growing Up
Gameplay
    Tile placement: Usual way.
    Mini deployment: If tile has well on road, can deploy well-wisher
    Extra Step: After road completion can make a wish, which leads to another action.
    Final scoring: If alone on the road, scores the road; 0 otherwise

Aside of Baby Boom, which employs a mini as a joke (but would be served visually better by a normal meeple), all expansions have a role for they newly introduced characters. Unfortunately, there is no consistency in how the new characters should be played, each author having their reasons to proceed the way they do. In one expansion, the mini can be deployed independently, in another one cannot. In one expansions, the Dragon can eat the mini, in another one cannot. In one, it can visit the City, in another one cannot. Even how they score varies.

For an easy comparison, I'm attaching a worksheet with the expansions placed side-by-side.

There are common themes: authors are looking to not overwhelm the game with characters, so usually they limit the number of minis introduced, or replace regulars for minis. When scoring, generally, minis have strength 0 (but can decide a tie of the regulars), or 0.5.

Would it be possible to play a mega game with all these expansions? In my opinion yes, but with difficulty. As different minis behave differently, they would need a distinct mark of a sort - perhaps their belt can be shaped such as to suggest which expansion they belong to. This aspect only would slow down the game, as players may need to check a mini "identity" and the rules, before deciding of their next move.

But, let's assume a group of three very decided players will accept the challenge. Here is how the meeple startup would look like:

RegularsMinis
Basic Carcassonne70
Apprentice73    (assuming somewhere between 300 and 400 map tiles)
Apprentices73+3= 6 (three players)
Baby Boom76+1= 7 (the one may be introduced later, or never played)
Carcasong of Ice and Fire77+1= 8 (note that the regulars side is more complicated)
Dwarfs in Mines78+1= 9
Family Planning79+4=13 (conservative option)
Folo-wee73+5=18 (two + three players)
Inns and Stable Owners718+4=22
Minimeeple use7-1=622+4=26
Pied Piper6-2=426+2=28
Temptress428+1=29
The Kids are Growing Up4-2=229+2=31 (the two regulars are kept around to replace two minis)
Wishing Wells231+3=33

Even considering the Baby Boom mini as a later addition to the game, there is a real inflation of minis, as the player will start with 32 in their inventory. Meanwhile, the regulars are reduced from 7 to 2, with the hope of reintroducing two when kids manage to grow up, and getting a mini with full functions as the offspring of baby boomers. With Family Planning, up to 4 more regulars can replace minis, bringing their total to 9, above the usual game.

Let's go one step further and ask: can such a game be even played? With Apprentices, The Kids Are Growing Up and Temptress, a mini can be deployed only beside a regular. As it is very difficult to deploy kids and grow them up to get regulars, this is already a huge handicap.

Meanwhile, of the minis that can be deployed autonomously, 6 kinds don't score by themselves (1 can get help from a Mayor), 1 kind has to team up to three of their number, while five of 1 kind are single-time use and frustrate scoring (small frustration, but still). The recovery of regulars would be very slow, perhaps even with 300 to 400 tiles won't be enough time to get them and play them and the final scores will be significantly reduced.

Is it worth even trying, then, such a game? Depends on everyone's taste, but I'd say probably not, the game straying too much from the original Carcassonne. However, you may want to vary your usual game with a couple of those variants.

Happy playing!

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