Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: kettlefish on April 10, 2015, 10:02:15 AM
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HiG has finished the meal plan for the Dragon.
Here is the link to the news:
http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/news/newsdetails/news/speiseplan_fuer_drachen/ (http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/news/newsdetails/news/speiseplan_fuer_drachen/)
and here is the new meal plan:
http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf (http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf)
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Obervet,
now you have some more new details for the CAR.
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I like this. The definitive guide to the dragon's snacking preferences.
I can't imagine that anyone thought that the dragon could eat landscape tiles (hmm, idea for new mechanic?), but as long as you're trying to make a complete reference, you might as well go all in.
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Speiseplan für Drachen
Der Drache frisst Gefolgsleute. So weit so gut.
Doch mit all den Sonderfiguren aus Erweiterungen ist es manchmal schwierig nachzuvollziehen, was sonst noch auf dem Speiseplan des Drachens steht.
Die Regeln standen oft im Widerspruch zu dem normalen Menschenverstand.
Daher haben wir zusammen mit Klaus Jürgen Wrede entschieden, den Speiseplan möglichst intuitiv zu gestalten.
Die neue Devise lautet: Der Drache frisst alles aus Fleisch und Blut.
Vor der Fee hat der Drache aber nach wie vor Angst.
Gefolgsmänner in der Burg und in der (Grafen-)Stadt Carcassonne sind ebenfalls weiterhin geschützt.
Translation:
Meal Plan for the Dragon
The Dragon eats followers. So far so good.
But it is sometimes difficult to understand with all the special figures from the expansions, what's else is on the menu of the Dragon.
The rules were often in contrast with the normal common sense.
Therefore we have decided together with Klaus Jürgen Wrede that the meal plan needs a new intuitive fashion.
The new motto is: the Dragon eats everything from flesh and blood.
But the Dragon still has fear about the fairy.
Followers in the Castle and in the (Count) City of Carcassonne are also protected.
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Translation for the headlines
Page 1
Dragons' meal plan
Everything what the dragon eats
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Page 2
Dragon's diat plan
Everything what the dragon doesn't eat
Protection against Dragon
Figures in the following places are safe from the Dragon
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It's a pickle. Dragon does not eat the wagon but its 'follower' driving it. Or maybe it deatroys/eat anything that moves.
I wonder how we would feel about it destroying a Tower. :)
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I can't imagine that anyone thought that the dragon could eat landscape tiles
Not a far fetched idea. Especially since HiG stated now, that the dragon is interesting in EVERYTHING with meat, not wood. Consider the pig heard tile, or the ones of Cathars & Besiegers. The Princess? ;)
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Wait, so the dragon eats the teacher and then the teacher is out of the game? That's a rule change right? I always thought the school was safe.
Does that mean that you have to decide which of the two school tiles the teacher sits on, or can it be eaten when the dragon is on either tile?
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Wait, so the dragon eats the teacher and then the teacher is out of the game? That's a rule change right? I always thought the school was safe.
Does that mean that you have to decide which of the two school tiles the teacher sits on, or can it be eaten when the dragon is on either tile?
It contradicts the rule that dragon cannot get to places which are located on multiple tiles. Also he can now eat the mage and witch as well ? >:( It was stated that he cannot eat neutral figures. Teacher is neutral figure and he is also in the protected area... so... I definetly don't like the new rules :(
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And what about rat tokens in Plague? Flesh and blood! :D
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I don't mind the flesh and blood rule if it means that phantoms can't be eaten by the dragon. Surely a phantom is a ghost and therefore has no body... ???
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And what about fleas: they're mainly blood!
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And what about fleas: they're mainly blood!
I say we pull a War of the Worlds and have the fleas take down the dragon.
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And what about fleas: they're mainly blood!
I say we pull a War of the Worlds and have the fleas take down the dragon.
"If the dragon moves to at least 4 tiles that are currently occupied by active flea tokens during his movement phase, the dragon is overwhelmed and becomes infected by the plague. He is removed from the board until his equally hungry brother takes his place the next time a volcano tile is placed"
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Surely a phantom is a ghost and therefore has no body... ???
The German expression is "das Gefolge" meaning "the following" and it is not stated, that this meeples are "ghosts". I think, some players consider them more as camouflage knights or "ninja soldiers", although I don't know, what the official opinion of HiG is.
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Surely a phantom is a ghost and therefore has no body... ???
The German expression is "das Gefolge" meaning "the following" and it is not stated, that this meeples are "ghosts". I think, some players consider them more as camouflage knights or "ninja soldiers", although I don't know, what the official opinion of HiG is.
In my head, the fact that they were referred to as "Phantoms" and that they were transparent suggested that they were ghosts since the words in English are synonymous and regardless of whether they exist, most ghost stories and tales of people who say they've seen ghosts describe them as being able to see through them. If they're not ghosts but are simply stealthy followers then if they're stealthy enough to claim an extra feature without anyone else noticing then they ought to be able to elude the dragon too!
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If they're not ghosts but are simply stealthy followers then if they're stealthy enough to claim an extra feature without anyone else noticing then they ought to be able to elude the dragon too!
Not wanting to ruin anyone with spoilers from the leek first four episodes of the Game of Thrones new season, and the books for that matter, Dragons do seem to have a keen sense of smell.
So if our stealthy follower is indeed "meet" and not an "ectoplasm" based ghost it should also be considered a meal.
;D ;D
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UNSUBSCRIBE!!!! UNSUBSCRIBE!!!!! NO SPOILERS!!!
but thank you for the earning before i finished the sentence!
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I've called with HiG today as a result HiG has updated the Dragons meal plan.
Now - the teacher is save - see the rule
http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf (http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf)
The school still has the rule like the clarifications some time ago - simular to the City of Carcassonne and the Wheel of Fortune
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I think I like this version better. A multi-tile structure always protects its inhabitants.
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But I did not get an answer because of the new German Castles and the followers on the feature of the German Castle.
The double landscape tile is still one landscape tile - so the Dragon may eat all figures around the feature German Castle - example a follower on one of the roads. The Dragon goes one step: one landscape tile. He (the Dragon) has then some more choices to go forward on this way of 6 steps
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The double landscape tile is still one landscape tile - so the Dragon may eat all figures around the feature German Castle - example a follower on one of the roads. The Dragon goes one step: one landscape tile. He (the Dragon) has then some more choices to go forward on this way of 6 steps
I'm not sure if I like this. In conclution this must mean, that the dragon also has to move from halfling to halfling. At least these are seperate tiles too!
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The double landscape tile is still one landscape tile - so the Dragon may eat all figures around the feature German Castle - example a follower on one of the roads. The Dragon goes one step: one landscape tile. He (the Dragon) has then some more choices to go forward on this way of 6 steps
I'm not sure if I like this. In conclution this must mean, that the dragon also has to move from halfling to halfling. At least these are seperate tiles too!
Except a previous clarification has already stated that 2 halflings together = 1 tile.
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The double landscape tile is still one landscape tile - so the Dragon may eat all figures around the feature German Castle - example a follower on one of the roads. The Dragon goes one step: one landscape tile. He (the Dragon) has then some more choices to go forward on this way of 6 steps
I'm not sure if I like this. In conclution this must mean, that the dragon also has to move from halfling to halfling. At least these are seperate tiles too!
Except a previous clarification has already stated that 2 halflings together = 1 tile.
Even worse. So the rule isn't consistant... :/
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Translation for the headlines
Page 1
Dragons' meal plan
Everything what the dragon eats
------------------------------------------
Page 2
Dragon's diat plan
Everything what the dragon doesn't eat
Protection against Dragon
Figures in the following places are safe from the Dragon
Thank you for translating!
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Even worse. So the rule isn't consistant... :/
Well, the rule with the Halflings is rather, that one Halfling is one tile, and two Halflings (only when linked over the hypotenuses) are still one tile. This does not mean, that "half a German Castle" has to be regarded as one tile. I think, this rule makes sense, although others changes had imho a unneeded fast forwarded without second thinking approach.
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IMO, German Castle can be interpreted as City of Carcassonne: Dragon can fly only on outer tiles of the German Castle double tile. In this case it counts as two tiles. You didn't count City of Carcassonne as one tile, did you?
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The castles from the 8th expansion:
this castle is placed between 2 landscape tiles. The dragon can only move from one tile to the next tile, but the dragon can't move between the tiles.
The Castle from the mini Castles in Germany (Burgen in Deutschland):
this is a double landscape tile - one landscape tile without a separation line (like at the landscape outside the Wheel of Fortune). That means it is one landscape tile - the dragon can move (and eat the figures) one landscape tile - here is it a double landscape tile.
In my opinion - the dragon can eat the castle lord placed on the castle feature also the dragon can eat all the other figures on that double landscape tile.
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The castles from the 8th expansion:
this castle is placed between 2 landscape tiles. The dragon can only move from one tile to the next tile, but the dragon can't move between the tiles.
Does that mean (would be a new rule, I think), that a castle from B,C&B can "block" the path of the dragon? Let's say, the dragon comes from the "west", there is a castle along the "northern" edge of the tile. The dragon could then not "jump" over the castle, but only continue to the "East" or "South". If neither of that is possible, because there is no tile laid in this direction or it had been there before in that movement phase, it has to stop?
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The castles from the 8th expansion:
this castle is placed between 2 landscape tiles. The dragon can only move from one tile to the next tile, but the dragon can't move between the tiles.
Does that mean (would be a new rule, I think), that a castle from B,C&B can "block" the path of the dragon? Let's say, the dragon comes from the "west", there is a castle along the "northern" edge of the tile. The dragon could then not "jump" over the castle, but only continue to the "East" or "South". If neither of that is possible, because there is no tile laid in this direction or it had been there before in that movement phase, it has to stop?
No - there is no new rule for the dragon. The dragon can't eat a follower in the castle from B, C&B - because the castle is between two landscape tiles.
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What about the dragon and the gingerbread man? Does the dragon eat him? Technically he is not flesh and blood. But gingerbread is delicious and surely even a dragon would enjoy some.
I know the winter edition is separate and some people say that you can't (or shouldn't) play the winter edition with the other expansions since the art is different. But we like playing with it. Makes it feel less like winter and more like spring.
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What about the dragon and the gingerbread man? Does the dragon eat him? Technically he is not flesh and blood. But gingerbread is delicious and surely even a dragon would enjoy some.
I know the winter edition is separate and some people say that you can't (or shouldn't) play the winter edition with the other expansions since the art is different. But we like playing with it. Makes it feel less like winter and more like spring.
The only reference I could find was in CAR 7.4 (Complete Annotaded Rules) on page 45:
91 The Gingerbread Man (when playing the iOS version) can also be eaten by the dragon. (12/2014)
Link to the pdf rules on this forum can be found here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=292)
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I'd say the dragon can eat the Gingerbread Man aswell. The dragon isnt shy of eating 'neutral' figures, like the mage and witch, and for me the dragon fits in this line...
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I've called with HiG today as a result HiG has updated the Dragons meal plan.
Now - the teacher is save - see the rule
http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf (http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf)
The school still has the rule like the clarifications some time ago - simular to the City of Carcassonne and the Wheel of Fortune
The last statement in this topic was that dragons cannot eat teachers, but according to the last version (from May 19, 2015) of the plan, dragons can do it.
In the S-CAR v7.4 it is correctly given on the page 196 as a footnote 499 (but with the wrong date 3/2015),
but in Wikicarpedia it is still wrong
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition) (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/The_School_(1st_edition))
footnote 8
Can it be changed if it is actually correct (meaning here, ticher is edible)?
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There are several issues around this topic:
1. The CAR v7.4 is inconsistent about this matter:
1a) The teacher cannot be eaten by the dragon since it is placed on the school that is not on a tile in particular (latest version):
* Page 45: The 2015 FAQ: Meal plan for Dragons at the top of the page is aligned with the last FAQ document available on HiG's website until 11/2015 and on CarcF.
1b) The teacher can be eaten by the dragon since you are forced to place it on one of the two tiles od the school when playing with the dragon (previous version)
* Page 195: [492] If playing with the dragon, the teacher will have to be placed on one or the other of the school
tiles (i.e., not in the middle), as he can be eaten by the dragon (per the footnote below). (3/2015)
* Page 196: [499] The dragon is allowed on the school tiles and can eat the neutral teacher figure, removing
the teacher from the game entirely. This represents a change to a previous clarification, where the
teacher could not be eaten. Additionally, this requires players to place the teacher on only one of the
school tiles each time he returns to the school when playing with the dragon, as precise location will
be important. (3/2015)
2. The latest original FAQ document (published as: http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf (http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf)) in not available on HiG's website (which matches 1a), but it can be found here:
* Archived version available here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20151121062431/http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf (http://web.archive.org/web/20151121062431/http://www.hans-im-glueck.de/fileadmin/data_archive/Regeln/Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ.pdf)
* Copy maintained on CarcF renamed as Drache_FAQ.pdf (see last link in the table on this page):
https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10)
You can see both documents share some properties:
- Title: Carc_3Erw_Drache_FAQ_14.indd
- Created: 14/04/2015 11:57:40
- Modified: 14/04/2015 12:08:17
- Application: Adobe InDesign CS5.5 (7.5.3)
- PDF Generator: Adobe PDF Library 9.9
- PDF Version: 1.7, Adobe Extension Level 8 (Acrobat X)
- File size: 3,63 MB (3.810.741 bytes)
- Page size: 120 x 180 mm
3. The other FAQ version in PDF (03.2 Speiseplan für Drachen.pdf) available here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/js146pba3iq91ha/03.%202.%20Speiseplan%20f%C3%BCr%20Drachen.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/js146pba3iq91ha/03.%202.%20Speiseplan%20f%C3%BCr%20Drachen.pdf?dl=0)) differs in a number of properties:
- Title: Untitled
- Created: 19/05/2015 12:58:52
- Modified: 19/05/2015 12:58:52
- Application: PDF24 Creator
- PDF Generator: GPL Ghostscript 9.14
- PDF Version: 1.4 (Acrobat 5.x)
- File size: 2,81 MB (2.948.229 bytes)
- Page size: 176 x 256 mm
Although it was generated a few days later than the one referenced in section 2), it contains some indications it may not be an official version by HiG:
- Its last page included a text reading "Basic rules format for the Carcassone Forum"
- It contains a typo that was corrected in the latest version (the draft indicated that the catapult tokens belong to Expansion 6). Check this post:
https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=2600&start=15#p28695 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=2600&start=15#p28695)
- The file is not generated from InDesign and its page size is larger than a normal major expansion rules leaflet (120 x 180mm)
- The ornaments in the perimeter of the whitish area have been removed partially (on page 1) or almost totally on (on page 2 - you can see some remains at the bottom)
- The info inside the page has been shrunk to make room for extra lines. On page 1 the scale is not maintained and you can notice some extra shrinking in the vertical axis
- The page numbers have been removed along with the blue semicircular area at the bottom to make room for the extra lines.
All this makes me think this last document is fan generated and based on a previous draft of the FAQ, that includes errors removed and obsolete rules.
WICA follows the CAR v7.4 (bullet 1a). I researched this matter some time ago (as I came across these inconsistencies in the CAR itself) and updated the clarifications about the interactions of the teacher and the dragon accordingly. You can see the explanation for the latest ruling here:
https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=2600&start=15#p28749 (https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=281&t=2600&start=15#p28749)
Hope this helps!
EDIT: Added more details in section 3).
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So you have to be Sherlock Holmes to check all tumors and Entes or hoax :)
Odoslané z SM-A202F pomocou Tapatalku
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It is just fact checking... Just trying to understand the timeline... This is an interesting case.
This is a recurrent task when filling the gap between the CAR and the latest rules. Sometimes you come across some clarifications in CarC, CarcF or third parties that don't apply anymore. So you have to discard those outdated by later rulings... ;)
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All this makes me think this last document is fan generated and based on a previous draft of the FAQ, that includes errors removed and obsolete rules.
I also looked at it carefully, compared both PDFs (also with hex editor) and it seems that the oldest (19.05.2015) is actually a "fake", an interpretation by a Carcasonne fan, for which he used the as the basis version dated April 14, 2015. ::)