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Carc Central Community => General => Topic started by: evmillan on August 14, 2013, 06:43:57 PM

Title: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: evmillan on August 14, 2013, 06:43:57 PM
In few months I have become in a Carcassonne fan (Carcassonne Central is accomplice), I'm trying to complete my collection and teach the game to my family, friends and colleagues. I'm looking some spin-off game of Carcassonne, Which related game do you recommend me?

P.D I read all new posts every day and I'd like to participe in more topics, but I need to improve my writing English skills
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Amorpheus on August 15, 2013, 05:38:55 AM
I haven't played them all (maybe only half of them), but I would recommend Hunters & Gatherers as being the best spin-off.  I think it would be easier to teach than the original Carcassonne game, especially regarding scoring on farms/meadows.  Much easier to count the animals in the field that to determine which cities you can farm to, if you're new to the game.

I also own New World and The Kids of Carcassonne, and have played The Discovery.  New World is a decently fun game, but I didn't care for The Discovery the one time I played it.  If you have young kids, The Kids of Carcassonne is a great introduction to the game for them.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Tacita on August 15, 2013, 06:16:31 AM
Discovery is different and very good, especially with four players. It is the version with the most agonising choices.

The City
is the most beautiful and the most strategic.

The Castle
is like City, but for two players only. It is also uglier.

Ark of the Covenant and Hunters & Gatherers are nearly the same game, just with different themes. Ark is a bit fiddly with some stuff. H&G has some bonus tiles with which you can devestate another's long term strategy.

New World is bollocks.

Kids is okay and cute, but probably needs some house ruling for it to be truly enjoyable amongst adults. How it play with kids I have no idea.

So ... I recommend The Discovery and The City.  8)
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Lord_Wishmaster on August 18, 2013, 08:41:46 AM

The Castle
is like City, but for two players only. It is also uglier.

New World is bollocks.

Got to say that I've always considered The Castle to be the best game of all of them, and that includes the main game of Carcassonne - Heathen I hear you all cry!! Well I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel about it. Far more strategic, much more compact and a clever, more original take on the game than all the other spin-offs. Most of those whilst good don't actually alter the game that much.

As to New World... No No No!! You are just so wrong! I actually owned it for near on a year before taking it out the box, but now it's one of the most played Carcassonne games we have. Their are a few 'missing' rules granted... I did post a long missive on the old forum (when I was just plain ol' Wishmaster!) and most agreed with my 'solutions'... are those pages still about? Not looked around here enough just yet

The only one I've not yet played is The City... I've had it for years, in it's rather large wood box version. Must have a go one day I guess.

Is there any sign of the mysterious (well it was a year ago!) expansion for The Castle. Falcon I believe?
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Tacita on August 18, 2013, 12:00:17 PM
Got to say that I've always considered The Castle to be the best game of all of them, and that includes the main game of Carcassonne - Heathen I hear you all cry!! Well I'm sorry, but that's the way I feel about it. Far more strategic, much more compact and a clever, more original take on the game than all the other spin-offs. Most of those whilst good don't actually alter the game that much.
The Castle is great. It is also ugly. The only real gripe I have with it is that the markets are way too powerful. Nowadays we play with them being worth only two points. It has helped, but a game should not need house rules.

Quote from: Lord_Wishmaster
As to New World... No No No!! You are just so wrong! I actually owned it for near on a year before taking it out the box, but now it's one of the most played Carcassonne games we have. Their are a few 'missing' rules granted... I did post a long missive on the old forum (when I was just plain ol' Wishmaster!) and most agreed with my 'solutions'... are those pages still about? Not looked around here enough just yet
As I said: a game should not need "solutions". You do not build things playing it; you finish things to score a point here and a point there. There is no stratgey - only short term tactics.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Whaleyland on August 19, 2013, 01:13:12 AM
Since I've played and own most of them, I guess I'll chime in:

I think that's it. Good luck in your quest!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Lord_Wishmaster on August 19, 2013, 06:11:12 AM
Got to come back again on this. I don't think the Castle tiles are ugly at all. They are just totally fifferent to the look and feel of the other games, which is why I like it so much... it makes for a totally different game to all the others. The majority of the other spin-offs just 'fiddle' with the rules. At Kniza had the balls to use the concept but create something completely different.

Regards the New World and that 'no game should need solutions'. It's not that the rules are bad, just that for some reason a couple of things are not explained. Let's face it, there are whole sections on this forum that deal with that for the original game, so to say no game should need solutions pretty much damns carcassonne!  ;D
Yes it is instant and jumping in to grab points, but again this is what makes it different to the original game. There's be little point in making it play the same as Carcassonne would there?

I do agree that Hunters is a good game. It was the first spin-off I purchased, but when you analise it, what you have is a very pretty remake of the same game.

....hmm, obviously got the grumpy socks on again today!  ;D
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Tacita on August 19, 2013, 10:18:55 AM
....hmm, obviously got the grumpy socks on again today!  ;D
:)

Having different opinions is great and a better help for readers than two people agreeing.

The site is full of discussions about the rules, mostly because the expansions are not released with any regard to previous expansions. They are realeased with rules only pertaining to the original release (with a very few exceptions). Most people do not buy several expansions and then play them one at a time with the base game.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: evmillan on September 05, 2013, 04:44:41 PM
Thank you all for the the helpful suggestions, I am going to buy "H&G" (because I see some concensus around this game and I get King & Scout recently) and "The Kids of Carcassonne" (because I dream teaching to my little baby how to play in a few years). I'd bought "Carcassonne: Winter Edition" some weeks ago in a bargain at amazon.de

The routemap is something like that:
- Carcassonne: Winter Edition
- Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers.
- The Kids of Carcassonne.
- Carcassonne: The Discovery.
- Carcassonne: The Castle.
- Carcassonne: The City.
- New World / Mayflower.
- The Ark of the Covenant
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Andrew the Ambo on September 05, 2013, 10:40:45 PM
I have just found a second hand copy of Kids of Carcassonne. Now I just have to wait for my son to be old enough to play it (he can't even talk yet, and has only recently started walking!) :))
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Carcking on September 07, 2013, 07:25:01 PM
We own H&G and New World - and enjoy them. My wife and I will play either one now and then for a change of pace. They each have unique mechanics from the mother game.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: jungleboy on November 08, 2015, 12:47:39 PM
This topic has been dormant for a while but I'd like to revive it, especially since four new spin-offs have been released since this topic was last active.

I've only played the five spin-off games that I own, which are the City, the Castle, the Winter Edition, the Ark of the Covenant and Hunters and Gatherers. I've posted my thoughts on some of these elsewhere but I'll summarise them again here:

Carcassonne: the City
I love building the city walls and being able to place guards on top of them; it gives a great 3D look to the board. The inability to place a meeple to score a feature that was completed with the just-placed tile also adds a lot of strategy to the game and works especially well in this game because scoring triggers wall building - I think I really only began to understand/capitalise on this today on my third play. As with the Castle, only having to have streets match sides with other tiles and not markets or residential areas changes the strategy of the game a lot in terms of glomming on. I also think the road scoring is done really well (1 per tile for 3 or fewer tiles, 2 per tile for 4+). So in terms of game-play, I really like this game - it's just a shame about the artwork, especially of the markets. I'm still holding out hope for the City v2.0!

Carcassonne: the Castle
Still probably my favourite spin-off. Some people upthread didn't like the artwork but I think it's cool. Not having to match the edge exactly with another edge except for paths is really confusing when you're so used to regular Carcassonne, but from an aesthetic point of view it works so much better with the mostly square sides of houses and towers of the Castle than it does in the City. Meanwhile I love the wall/scoreboard, and the wall tiles add a nice touch. Can't wait to play the Falcon expansion one of these days! More thoughts on the Castle here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1471.0).

The Winter Edition
I really like the artwork and it's great to have the 12 extra tiles, with some configurations that don't exist in the base game. The gingerbread man can be fun but he can also take you completely out of the normal rhythm of the game if you want to try to truly maximise your gingerbread man points. Because it's also available on iOS, and because it's (obviously) very similar to Carcassonne, I have only played it once in 'real life'. If we want a quick alternative game to the base game, we tend to play Ark of the Covenant instead.

Ark of the Covenant
My favourite of the ones that aren't radically different from Carcassonne. The prophet, the ark and the different farm and temple scoring make it just different enough from the normal game to feel like a different game, but there's also some familiarity there. I like the desert colours and the temple tiles, although the city artwork can look a bit strange.

Hunters and Gatherers
I see here and elsewhere that many people really like Hunters and Gatherers. I've only played it once so far, but for a simple Carcassonne alternative I have to say that I prefer Ark of the Covenant (although as someone said upthread, they are fairly similar games). For some reason I found the visual part of H&G (mostly the forests) a bit confusing to get used to. I also prefer the theme of the Ark. Next time we'll play with the Scout expansion to see what that adds.
 
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: danisthirty on November 08, 2015, 01:52:59 PM
Some great thoughts JB! Have a merit... :(y)

I've played two spin-offs recently which weren't mentioned on this list so I thought I'd post my thoughts here too:

Carcassonne: South Seas
I've probably played this about a dozen times, mostly 2-player games but I've played it as part of a 3, a 4 and even a 5 (with Decar, JT Atomico, Curt194 and the guy from Basically Wooden). I like that it doesn't have a score track, but instead that each player builds up a supply of victory points in the form of ship tokens upon which their resource tokens are spent. Resource tokens are won by closing islands (bananas), roads (shells) and fishing (fish). This makes play far less aggressive and - dare I say it - rather fun! But it still feels like a very light game, and I do miss the tactical elements of classic Carcassonne which I haven't got to grips with in this game yet. The rule that you can recall a previously placed meeple instead of deploying one if you have none in your stock is a welcome change too, especially since you only have 4 meeples to play with.

Carcassonne: Star Wars
I've only played this once but I really enjoyed it (despite all the Star Wars nonsense). One aspect of the game that I particularly enjoyed was the fact that we played cooperatively as two teams of two, although you could do that with pretty much any game I suppose. But in any case, it felt a lot to me like someone somewhere had come up with a list of the things that casual players don't like about classic Carcassonne and had thought hard about how to put them right. Roads have become more valuable for one thing, and cloisters (planets) can be attacked and won or lost on the roll of a dice (so there's no more complaining about who drew most cloisters). There is no shared ownership of anything; a successful "glom" by an opposing player forces a battle. Battles are fought by rolling up to three dice per player/ team and taking just the highest number rolled as your score. Each player has a large meeple who gets an extra dice, and any battling players with a personal emblem that matches an emblem present in the feature being fought over get a bonus dice too. The result of all this is that the game feels very well balanced and I'm already looking forward to playing it again!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: jungleboy on November 09, 2015, 09:00:00 AM
Interesting reports, thanks! I haven't really considered getting either of these two (mostly because of the themes), but you might have sparked my interest a bit.

Meanwhile, given my (probably useless) hope for new artwork for Carcassonne: the City, is it worth looking at the current treatment / availability of the spin-off games to see if we can spot any trends?

Unless I'm mistaken, it looks like the only spin-off published before Z-Man Games took over publication in the English-speaking world that Z-Man has reprinted is Hunters and Gatherers (with new artwork). The remaining early spin-offs are no longer being published in English (or even in German?), although they seem to pop up in Sweden quite a bit! Are there any signs that Z-Man is considering republishing any other early spin-offs?

Meanwhile, the lack of official printing of the print-and-play Falcon expansion for Carcassonne: the Castle would appear to show that there is no interest in republishing this game, since this would have been a perfect opportunity to reprint it with the Falcon expansion included. I assume this means that there is also no interest in republishing the City, although it is true that the City was republished once before (without the wooden box), so maybe there is still hope! 

Maybe whaleyland would like to chime in on this topic as he is usually on top of stuff like this!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: danisthirty on November 09, 2015, 09:09:32 AM
Are there any signs that Z-Man is considering republishing any other early spin-offs?

Maybe the best way of finding out for sure would be to ask them directly. I emailed them once (about whether W/E themed score tiles would be included with W/E) and they got back to me pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Whaleyland on November 09, 2015, 12:02:19 PM
Maybe whaleyland would like to chime in on this topic as he is usually on top of stuff like this!
I agree with danisthirty. Email either Z-Man or Hans im Glück. Both usually respond quickly (although maybe not HiG right now) and they are usually honest about things, although if they are anticipating a future release they may keep things hush-hush until the announcement. Currently out of print are The Castle, The City, The Discovery, and Mayflower/New World. Since Winter Edition is new, I imagine it will see a reprint, but probably not with scoring tiles or Gingerbread Man. I really wish The Castle saw a reprint with The Falcon, but the lack of its inclusion suggests neither company is currently interested in reprinting the game. The City probably needs the largest graphic overhaul of the series but we'll have to see if that ever comes about. I'd say email them but don't expect a full answer.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: jungleboy on November 09, 2015, 12:11:57 PM
Thanks guys. I tweeted them so we'll see if they respond that way. Email is for chumps :)
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: jungleboy on November 11, 2015, 12:52:24 PM
Thanks guys. I tweeted them so we'll see if they respond that way. Email is for chumps :)

They haven't replied yet, so maybe it's twitter that's for chumps...
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Lord_Wishmaster on January 26, 2016, 07:18:59 AM
Only just noticed that this one has been 're-activated' of late.

The only two spin-offs that I don't currently own are Goldrush and Star Wars. On that basis I guess I'm in a reasonable position to comment. Since my last comment,some two and half years back(!) I've got round to playing all that I owned and hadn't played, plus bought new ones, so, in no particular order, current feelings with observations are:

The Castle: The only Carcassonne game deliberately made for just 2 players. Reiner Knizia is probably my favourite game designer, the guys a genius. I have several of his games and all are different to each other. Likewise, The Castle is different from all the other Carcassonnes. Tactia, back in 2013, described it as ugly and I said different. I stand by that still, although I may have revised that my opinion of it being best spin-off.... see further down!

Hunters & Gatherers: This was the first spin-off to be released. Like those that have followed there is a strong argument to be made that once you have the main game the rest are the same game, different design. Hunters probably comes the closest to that statements truth. However, the game is the game and it's the 'tweaks' that we will probably be buying them for. Extra pieces, in this case the Huts, make it interesting, plus the abilty to gain a nugget card - some of which are just basically another normal tile but some have interesting extras. I liked it on release but as more spin-offs came out I tend not to jump to this as first choice so much, more a case of not played it for a while so let's have a go.

The Discovery: This ones a bit odd. On release it was described as a simpler version of Carcassonne thus making it ideal for 'younger players'. Actually it's the most technically and strategically challenging of the lot! Less meeples and you can only place or take back, not both. Also you can remove and take a partial score without completing. Scoring is not nearly as obvious/direct as the other games either, and for some reason most players will sit and twist the tiles round and round having trouble knowing the best place to put them! For all these reasons, it goes very near the top of the list!

New World: This is the one that really divides people here it would seem. Took me a while to get round to bothering to play it some time after purchase (Mind you, only a year.... I've had some games 6+ years before playing, see below!). Once you understand it's concept it plays well. It was, to my mind, a rather rushed job on issue. The Rules were perhaps not read through as thoroughly as previous games and a couple of bits not explained as well as they could have been. Once you apply some thoughtful logic to it, all becomes obvious. The big rules gap is that you should only play it to the width of the starting board all the way 'up' the game. Once you 'get' that concept, it's brilliant and this coupled with the surveyors taking meeples off the board turns it into a game unlike the other spin-offs. A 'speed carcassonne' if you like with a need to grab small points fast rather than attempt big builds for big points.

The City: I have the original version in the wooden box. Not seen the current release but I'm assuming it's the same game in a standard size cardboard box? So, this is one of those games that I owned a while..... at least six years actually, could be longer.... before playing it! We finally did the deed just three weeks ago. Why did we wait sooooo long!? This is a fantastic take on the original game! It's not as obvious where things go to start with as some are. Even before you look at the walls and towers there is a fair amount to take in. The walls are a clever addition. There's no point bringing out a spin-off that does exactly the same as the original, and that's why we have some wooden walls. There use as well as giving something else for Mr Meeple to do also contain the games size, so much so that it becomes the only Carcassonne game that can end before all the tiles are used up. Having finally 'discovered' it, we've played it quite a few times now.... Although the following is a worthwhile observation - I love it, my daughter of 28, hates it!

Ark Of The Covenant: Am I correct in saying that this one was only available in the USA? Very difficalt to find these days. Mine came from eBay some time ago. Don't be put off by it's bible theme if you are not that way inclined. I've not played this one a lot, certainly not recently. The novelty here is the Ark itself. You have the option of moving it instead of placing meeples. The rest plays out pretty straight and true as Carcassonne in the desert. I've always felt that the Ark piece is a bit naff, a square of card in a plastic stand. Missed opportunity there, a nice 'collectable' pewter ark would have been very nice..... and I've not found something suitable as yet! Probably not one to race out for straight away, but definitely required at some point for the set.

Winter Edition: As stated by someone else, this basically the base game with snow art on the tiles. However, this is actually my wife's favourite spin-off simply because of that artwork. She says it gives it a much more tactile, calming feel whilst playing. There are a couple of different tiles not in the base game, plus mine came with the Gingerbread man six tile (and Mr GB himself) expansion. Quite frankly I would suggest only getting it if you have this too. With that included it's a good game but possibly only as an extra.

Wheel Of Fortune: Had this a few years before playing too! Another odd one to bring out as a complete game. As such, this is the base game minus the start tile, plus the large wheel board to use instead. I suspect a money making plan was hatched! It could have been issued as an expansion with just the required extras. That said, I would suggest playing it only as a stand-alone game. You get pretty much the same tiles as the base game, but some have numbered wheel symbols on them that 'activate the wheel' A pig moves around the wheel, and more points can be scored. The wheel is somewhere else to place meeples. Why only play it as stand-alone? If you add more to it, the 'wheel' tiles won't come out often enough, which negates the point of placing meeples on the wheel.

South Seas: Right at the top of this rather long missive I said I had changed my mind about The Castle being the best spin-off.... and this one is the reason why. If you've not bought it yet, this is my advice... stop reading and go to your favourite place of purchase immediately! Go on, just do it!! So, yes, I like this one a lot. It's fast, it's fun... no make that FUN. In a way it takes the concept of Discovery (only 4 meeples, place or take back, not both) and delivers it all in a beautiful quick easy wrapping. It's also the only Carcassonne game not to incluse a scoreboard, now that's different. It has a currency, wooden bananas, fish and shells (lots of them), little boats and ships to purchase with your wood. In many ways it takes the game to somewhere completely different. Total winner.

....And so, that's all the spin-offs that I own, which just leaves............

Goldrush: Without owning I can't say for sure, but it looks like it's back to more of the basic Carcassonne rules but you get tents as well?

Star Wars: I really was totally disinterested when I first heard about this one. I'm a Carcassonne fan, and a Star Wars fan (the new one is fantastic, proper Star Wars is back!), but together?!! However, having looked at the pictures, briefly seen the rules, gone through the reviews.... I think I'll need to add it.

Kids of Carcassonne: Mine are grown up. No.

If you've got this far... God help you!!  ;D


Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Decar on January 26, 2016, 07:43:06 AM
+ Over Hills & Dales
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: ARabidMeerkat on January 26, 2016, 07:43:33 AM
The Ark is also a fun little mechanic, albeit one that was later adopted in Carcassonne expansions to a degree.

Which expansion to some degree did this become?
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: danisthirty on January 26, 2016, 08:14:19 AM
Thanks for that comprehensive summary Lord_Wishmaster! :) :(y)

I was going to point out that you hadn't mentioned Over Hill & Dale but Decar beat me to it! Plus of course there are all those games in the middle ground that aren't quite spin-offs but aren't typical expansions either (CarDcassonne, Carcassonne the Dice Game, Travel Carcassonne etc). Do you have any opinion on any of these?

The City: ... as giving something else for Mr Meeple to do also contain the games size, so much so that it becomes the only Carcassonne game that can end before all the tiles are used up. Having finally 'discovered' it, we've played it quite a few times now.... Although the following is a worthwhile observation - I love it, my daughter of 28, hates it!

South Seas can also end before all the tiles are used up if all of the ship tokens get bought. In my experience this is quite often the case in 2-player games. Also, it frequently happens in Kids of Carcassonne which I've probably played at least 15 times so far this year!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: jungleboy on January 26, 2016, 08:19:05 AM
The only two spin-offs that I don't currently own are Goldrush and Star Wars. On that basis I guess I'm in a reasonable position to comment. Since my last comment,some two and half years back(!) I've got round to playing all that I owned and hadn't played, plus bought new ones, so, in no particular order, current feelings with observations are:

Great summaries - merit for you!

The Discovery: This ones a bit odd. On release it was described as a simpler version of Carcassonne thus making it ideal for 'younger players'. Actually it's the most technically and strategically challenging of the lot! Less meeples and you can only place or take back, not both. Also you can remove and take a partial score without completing. Scoring is not nearly as obvious/direct as the other games either, and for some reason most players will sit and twist the tiles round and round having trouble knowing the best place to put them! For all these reasons, it goes very near the top of the list!

I'm almost intrigued by this ... but not quite. I'm not an uber-completionist and I already have 5 spin-offs. So unless it offers dramatically different gameplay from the original or from H&G/the Ark (e.g. the Castle or the City), I would only get it if I were blown away by the theme and the design/components. And I'm not.

South Seas: Right at the top of this rather long missive I said I had changed my mind about The Castle being the best spin-off.... and this one is the reason why. If you've not bought it yet, this is my advice... stop reading and go to your favourite place of purchase immediately! Go on, just do it!! So, yes, I like this one a lot. It's fast, it's fun... no make that FUN. In a way it takes the concept of Discovery (only 4 meeples, place or take back, not both) and delivers it all in a beautiful quick easy wrapping. It's also the only Carcassonne game not to incluse a scoreboard, now that's different. It has a currency, wooden bananas, fish and shells (lots of them), little boats and ships to purchase with your wood. In many ways it takes the game to somewhere completely different. Total winner.

This is the other one that I don't have that seems a little intriguing. The gameplay seems different enough to make it interesting, but here it's the theme that I'm not into. The Pacific and this theme is just so far removed from the medieval south of France that I can't really envisage it as a 'Carcassonne' game.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Lord_Wishmaster on January 26, 2016, 08:26:43 AM
Ah yes, Hills and dales. Sorry missed that one. Have to be honest, I know practically nothing about it. Just looked a little on the whimsical side to me?

Travel Carcassonne: Not so much a Spin-off, more the base game in miniature. Total missed opportunity in my opinion. I've said this before in another thread, a travel game should be in something, a grid, magnetic etc etc, so that it can me played whilst on the move. I guess it depends on your take of 'travel'. If you mean it can go away with you, then just put the base game in a smaller box!

Dice and Cards... I have no idea so can not comment really. Did look online at the card version when it first appeared. I'll leave that one for others!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Lord_Wishmaster on January 26, 2016, 08:31:37 AM
Jungleboy... By your criteria for bying, I would say get both Discovery and South Seas.
South Seas is a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned, but had I not been given it as a present I might not have gone out and bought it... what a miss that would have been. Yes, I see what you mean regards the non-theme of Carcassonne, but I think we just have to take the name more as a branding than what the original game was based around here.

Danisthirsty.... Yes, of course you are correct that South Seas can end before all the tiles are out. Good spot. It's happened to us a few times too.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Decar on January 26, 2016, 08:33:48 AM
Discovery has very different game play.  So much so, it didn't feel very Carcassonne at all.  There are essentially 3 types of city and not enough joining pieces.  The landscape becomes blobs.  The scoring is clunky (it applies the 2-point city rule to every type) & there is incomplete feature scoring, by removing your meeple early is nice - like The Abbot in Carcassonne 2.0.  The scoreboard only goes upto 50.  I quite liked the artwork and theme, but didn't enjoy the game play.  It's brave for being different, but I don't think it had the legs. 

You're not missing much Jungleboy.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Decar on January 26, 2016, 08:35:41 AM
The Pacific and this theme is just so far removed from the medieval south of France that I can't really envisage it as a 'Carcassonne' game.

Best avoid Carcassonne Star Wars!  That's set in a galaxy Far Far away  ;D
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Lord_Wishmaster on January 26, 2016, 09:15:06 AM
Discovery has very different game play.  So much so, it didn't feel very Carcassonne at all.  There are essentially 3 types of city and not enough joining pieces.  The landscape becomes blobs.  The scoring is clunky (it applies the 2-point city rule to every type) & there is incomplete feature scoring, by removing your meeple early is nice - like The Abbot in Carcassonne 2.0.  The scoreboard only goes upto 50.  I quite liked the artwork and theme, but didn't enjoy the game play.  It's brave for being different, but I don't think it had the legs. 

You're not missing much Jungleboy.

Couldn't disagree more! I think it makes for a great game. As I said earlier, to me there is very little point in a spin-off repeating what's already happened in the base game, and this takes that on board. It uses the Carcassonne concept and then makes it play very differently. It really stretches the player and makes him plan ahead and think about his strategy. I will grant you that the scoring takes some getting used to but it's OK once grasped.... the player aid cards are best left in the bottom of the box mind!

'the Scoreboard only goes up to 50'.... er, pretty standard Carcassonne scoreboard then! All of them only go up to 50. Methinks someone has got a bit to used to using his home made scoreboards maybe?!  :)

Regards your Star Wars comment... perhaps you give yourself away there, possibly explaining the Discovery comments too.... 'It ain't Carcassonne so I ain't playing it'??  ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: danisthirty on January 26, 2016, 09:20:09 AM
'the Scoreboard only goes up to 50'.... er, pretty standard Carcassonne scoreboard then! All of them only go up to 50.

This one doesn't (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2288.msg32473#msg32473).
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: jungleboy on January 26, 2016, 09:33:13 AM
This one doesn't (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2288.msg32473#msg32473).

Oh stop it. That scoreboard is a myth.

 :))  :))
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Decar on January 26, 2016, 09:45:14 AM
Couldn't disagree more!

I'm sure you could.

I think it makes for a great game. As I said earlier, to me there is very little point in a spin-off repeating what's already happened in the base game, and this takes that on board. It uses the Carcassonne concept and then makes it play very differently. It really stretches the player and makes him plan ahead and think about his strategy. I will grant you that the scoring takes some getting used to but it's OK once grasped.... the player aid cards are best left in the bottom of the box mind!

I was answering in terms of Jungleboy's requirements.  Yes the game is different; but that doesn't make it better.  Mechanically 3 similar feature types don't fit well.  I think there's a topological limitation of having 3 blobby intersecting things on a 2D surface.  Carcassonne avoids this by using 2 on a field and then introduces Cloisters.  I don't think the tile distribution is well thought out as I said.  The fact they decided to print a scoring-reminder board for every player shows it can't have been received well during play testing.  I don't dislike the game, I just don't think it's very strong mechanically.  Jungleboy might enjoy it because it is so different, but The Castle and The City perform better.  These are my thoughts you, jungleboy and everyone else can ignore them as they wish.  This is usually what happens :)

'the Scoreboard only goes up to 50'.... er, pretty standard Carcassonne scoreboard then! All of them only go up to 50. Methinks someone has got a bit to used to using his home made scoreboards maybe?!  :)
With the exception of the one Dan pointed to above: Carcassonne Scoreboards go up to 49 then round to 0.  From a usability perspective this is much better for games that score more than 50.  Going up to 50, then back down to 0, no wait 1, is exactly why the 70-point track was changed to the one we know and love now.  It's like they unlearned what they had already learned.

Regards your Star Wars comment... perhaps you give yourself away there, possibly explaining the Discovery comments too.... 'It ain't Carcassonne so I ain't playing it'??  ;D ;D ;D
I've said many times on the forum, I love Carcassonne Star Wars, again I was taking jungleboy's requirements on board.  The co-op play works great and the planet-battling is a fresh mechanic.  Road Pennants were a nice inclusion too, making roads a little more viable.  More tiles, with a range of permutations is good too; having said that I've not looked at the distribution closely. Less meeple make it challenging too.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Rosco on February 19, 2016, 02:51:40 PM
Over the last few weeks I have tried out most of the spin-offs.

I can say that I really like a few and others are rather weak.

the Castle - This is a great game and I really enjoy the mechanics.  My 8 yr old daughter also really likes it too which is great as I have a new gaming partner!  I cant wait for the Falconer expansion to add to the game

Hunters and Gatherers - This was fun but not my favourite of the games - I think it needs another couple of plays to really get a feel for the game.

South Seas - This we love - we have played this a fair few times and really like the fact you dont use a score board.  We enjoy the trading element and it makes it even better that we have a blue banana in our set!

Mayflower - this is not our favourite - it was an interesting version and could be interesting but we need to try it again.

Star Wars - This was really good - we love the battling element.  It is actually quite cool combining a game I love and a movie i love.

The Discovery - Not good - art is terrible and the game play is boring.  not playing this again.  Anyone want to buy it????

next I need to play Stock and Stein, and The City.


In other news - I have bought a lovely wooden box which is the perfect size for a travel set of Carcassonne.  I have put a base set into it and a few expansions and all I need now is to put some dividers in.

Photos to come!!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Whaleyland on February 19, 2016, 07:32:01 PM
The Discovery - Not good - art is terrible and the game play is boring.  not playing this again.  Anyone want to buy it????
I'd be interested. I just missed my chance to nab it when the Carcassonne Shoppe shut down (it ran out of stock while in my Shopping Cart). Other than Über stock und stein, it is the only tile-based spin-off I don't have (not counting Cardcassonne or the Dice Game...ugh).

I wasn't enamoured with New World/Mayflower either. The graphics are too photo-realistic which makes the features really hard to see. I do like the time-out mechanism with the surveyors (or whatever they're called). The City is our least favourite. It just doesn't hit the spot for us and the tiles just look rather lame.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: danisthirty on February 19, 2016, 10:31:20 PM
South Seas - This we love - we have played this a fair few times and really like the fact you dont use a score board.  We enjoy the trading element and it makes it even better that we have a blue banana in our set!

Thanks for the reviews Rosco! :)

I'm yet to meet anyone who doesn't enjoy playing South Seas. Although I'm sure we'll be able to find someone now that I've said this!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Rosco on November 16, 2018, 04:07:27 PM
I had my first game of Gold Rush the other day - I have to say that it is really fun.  The gold tokens really adds an extra bit of strategy into the game which can really affect the scores.  My daughter was focusing her efforts on the Prairie (farm) where as I was concentrating on railroads with trains and cities (monsateries).  The mountains are interesting with several ways to score from them - dealing gold from mountains controlled by others with your tent, collecting your own gold early to prevent theft, collecting mined gold when complete. 

I really like it.  Anyone else's thoughts?

On a side note, my spin-off collection is almost complete now that the arc has arrived only safari left to get.  I had The City but sold it to fund other purchases but would now like a cardboard box version, and I had mayflower but it is crap so I got rid!

Sent from my SM-A320FL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: DrMeeple on November 17, 2018, 02:26:04 AM
I love the Carcassonne spin-offs. They all have their charm. Except for seas of south seas and amazonas that both the theme and the mechanics I don't like very much. Personally following the medieval theme I stay with The city and The castle. I think I would do two rankings based on the decade.
2000-2010:
-The city
-The castle
-Ark of the covenant
-Hunters and gatherers
-A new world
-The discovery

2010-Present:
-Star Wars
-Over the hill and dale
-Safari
-Goldrush
-Amazonas
-South seas
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Rosco on November 17, 2018, 02:58:14 AM
I love the Carcassonne spin-offs. They all have their charm. Except for seas of south seas and amazonas that both the theme and the mechanics I don't like very much. Personally following the medieval theme I stay with The city and The castle. I think I would do two rankings based on the decade.
2000-2010:
-The city
-The castle
-Ark of the covenant
-Hunters and gatherers
-A new world
-The discovery

2010-Present:
-Star Wars
-Over the hill and dale
-Safari
-Goldrush
-Amazon
-Mars of the South

I love the Carcassonne spin-offs. They all have their charm. Except for seas of south seas and amazonas that both the theme and the mechanics I don't like very much. Personally following the medieval theme I stay with The city and The castle. I think I would do two rankings based on the decade.
2000-2010:
-The city
-The castle
-Ark of the covenant
-Hunters and gatherers
-A new world
-The discovery

2010-Present:
-Star Wars
-Over the hill and dale
-Safari
-Goldrush
-Amazon
-Mars of the South

That is interesting as I disagree completely.

My ranking would be as follows:

2000-2010:
-The castle
- Hunters and gatherers
- the city
- Ark of the covenant (not played)
-The discovery
-A new world

2010-Present:
-South Seas
-gold rush
-amazon
-over hill and Dale
-Star Wars
-Safari (don't own/ not played)

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Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: danisthirty on November 19, 2018, 02:19:33 AM
Thanks for that review Rosco, +1 merit for sharing your thoughts :(y)

I haven't played Safari yet but I have to say that South Seas remains my favourite spin-off of all time!
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Halfling on November 19, 2018, 02:34:38 AM
The City
Cardcassonne
Gold Rush
 South Seas
Hunters & Gatherers
Star Wars
Are the 6 that we play most.

Amazonas and Discovery are least liked.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: jungleboy on November 19, 2018, 09:46:21 AM
- Ark of the covenant (not played)
-The discovery
-A new world

This is funny - you must really dislike the two below the one you haven't played  ;)
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Rosco on November 19, 2018, 09:47:15 AM
I do! Really didn't enjoy them!

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Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: DrMeeple on November 19, 2018, 02:52:41 PM
Yes!! I thought the same too hahahahaa

- Ark of the covenant (not played)
-The discovery
-A new world

This is funny - you must really dislike the two below the one you haven't played  ;)
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: TheDoctor_13 on November 23, 2018, 12:45:58 AM
Played: South Seas, Gold Rush, Amazonas, New World, Castle

Order
1) South Seas, just amazing, really like the different points system.
2) New World, Personally like the westward push as a sort of race and trying to time completion correctly. Would play by not allowing meeples to be placed east of the  :gray-meeple: :gray-meeple:
3) Gold Rush, more cutthroat version of Carcassonne. Kind of confusing to be honest.
4) Amazonas, this is pretty low due to the fact I have some trouble with the rules. Jungles give a lot of points if done correctly, river feels clunky.
5) Castle, ugly for starters. Gameplay wasn't that engaging, but did offer a nice puzzle feel.

Really want to try Hunters & Gatherers and Safari. Overhill & Dale I would if I got the chance, but I wouldn't go out of my way.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: Willem on November 23, 2018, 04:28:44 AM
We've played all the spin-off games at least once.
When we got one of these delivered, we always try it out immediately. Some games we play more often now, and some are just in the collection for collection purposes.

Our list would look like this:
Safari/Gold Rush/South Seas
Amazonas
Star Wars
Over Hill and Dale
The City
Hunters&Gatherers
The Castle
New World
Ark of the Covenant
The Discovery
My First Carcassonne

We really like the different elements in the top 3 games. We played Gold Rush yesterday, and it is very interesting i think. South Seas' element of no scoring board and the trading tokens is really nice! Safari has brought some new things to the table!
Amazonas has a nice theme, but doesn't add enough new elements to award it the (shared) top spot.
Title: Re: Bests Spin-Off Games
Post by: DrMeeple on November 24, 2018, 07:59:38 AM
Interesting vision. Personally the series 'around the world' doesn't convince me in general (amazonas and south seas are the reason).