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Messages - tothederby

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31
Official Rules / Re: Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« on: March 13, 2019, 10:49:46 AM »
Thank you very much Decar for the kind welcome - I really appreciate it.  Also thank you for the advice to split this into different threads - I will do that.  Thanks too for all the work you and team and the broader community have done / do to pin down the rules, and improve their interpretation and usability - it is an enormous help when trying to understand all the interactions.

My apologies to you Halfling.  I am being / have been selfish I admit.  I do own quite a few expansions but Halflings is not one of them.  What I have read at Carcassonne Central and elsewhere is that it can have quite complex interactions with other expansions and in interpretation on how to handle those.  I wanted to first establish solid ground for the other expansions before any attempt to then interweave Halflings in.  I hope you can forgive and help me with any thoughts on what I currently have....?

My thanks also to Skull One.  I contacted Skull One initially and he suggested posting this initial thread to share the document.

I would really value any and all comments on the doc itself if possible (appreciating it is involved and content dense).



32
Official Rules / Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« on: March 12, 2019, 04:18:35 PM »
I wanted a shortened version of CAR that would capture all the key elements of play and could be kept with the game, updated for the more recent expansions. I have unashamedly taken parts of CAR 7.4 (thank you obervet, Skull One et al) and also copied and pasted from Wikicarpedia (thank you meepledrone et al) to pull together a condensed set of rules, attached as a pdf.
 
I still have questions (highlighted in blue) and I have had to interpret in some areas (highlighted in yellow), potentially incorrectly.

I have not included Halflings, and only very lightly covered Expansion 7. The Catapult.  I have only considered the official expansions plus the promo tiles.  I have worked from New Edition rules as a starting point (so there may be variations to earlier rules).

I would value any corrections to improve the robustness of the document and iron out mistakes. I am sure there are quite a few! I am sorry the post is quite long but I hope the questions I have are interesting and helpful.

Many thanks in anticipation.


The specific questions I have (in the order they appear in the pdf) are the following:

1. Messengers: if a message tile is drawn and it is the 'Add a landscape' tile, you can place the drawn landscape tile and place a meeple on it as normal.  Do you also score the tile?
2. Robbers: when an opponent's scoring meeple or messenger moves during a turn that is not yours, can you still score points (or can you only score points during your turn)?
3. Wheel of Fortune scoring event: there are two parts to awarding points for a Wheel of Fortune event (acting on the instructions for the particular sector of the wheel and points for where the followers sit on the crown spaces). For Messengers, are these 2 different and separate scoring events or only one?
4. Spread the plague by placing a flea: I believe this cannot happen at any time during a turn, but rather it must happen any time after drawing a tile.  This is because of this sentence in the rules: "The player who drew the [plague source] tile may not place a flea token in this turn, having instead the privilege of choosing where the Outbreak will occur."
5. Likewise a bridge can only be built any time after placing a tile (the tile needs to be paced before the bridge can be placed).
6. La Porxada
6a) SWAPPING: what does it mean to swap meeples? does this mean swap places with each other? or does it mean to take possession of the other player's meeple in their respective current locations? or does it mean both? Swapping places may be illegal (a barn cannot be placed in a city etc.) so it would seem to point to 'taking possession' with meeples remaining in situ.  Any insights or thoughts?
6b) TAGGING: How do you tag or track that a different coloured meeple now belongs to you (and the other player)? This I guess is more an issue if a normal meeple is swapped.
7. Princess & the knight.  The new rules use the word 'may' not 'must': "you may remove one knight of your choice (even your own)" and I have adopted this (I note the recent thread discussion on this).  From this, I consider this princess action becomes part of the 'Move the Wood' phase 1 - there is no longer a need to insist the action is taken before making the extensive choice of other Move the Wood actions and indeed by moving it into 'Move the Wood' it extend the strategic choices of the active player.
8. Excluded features for deployment. 
8a) I have said for flier and magic portal movement, fairy placement, dragon movement, redeployment out of the City of Carcassonne and placement of special & neutral figures (except the Count to Carcassonne), then meeples and figures cannot be deployed to the City of Carcassone, City of Leipzig, Wheel of Fortune crown spaces and expansion 8 castles.  Is this correct?
8b) Some further details are shown in the table of the attached pdf on page 8.  Are the assertions made in the table correct?
9. Completed field: there is a reference in the rules for shepherds that says: "Exception: If any player completes a field with shepherds and sheep by fully surrounding it by roads and cities, immediately resolve the Guide the flock to the stable action for that field."  Does this mean that a field can be completed before the end of the game?  And if so, does it mean it can be (should be) scored (through the act of completion & needing to resolve a completed feature) before the end of the game?
10. Expansion 8 castle completion: can an expansion 8 castle that was created on first placement of a tile be completed on a builder repeat turn?  Or do you have to wait until a brand new turn before completing it?  Or could you even create it and complete it in the same turn / cycle?  I can’t find any reference in ZMG to a rule that says you need to wait until the next turn or cycle. However, from CAR 7.4 in footnote 304 it says: “The RGG version of the rules states that the castle scores only “when the first feature … in the vicinity of the castle is later completed” (emphasis added) – while a subsequent turn is not specifically mentioned, it seems apparent in both rule sets that a feature that is completed on the turn that the castle is built does not allow the castle to score.”  But in CAR 7.4 on page 99 it says: “The follower in the castle always receives points for the next structure to be completed. It may not be left in play in order to receive points for a structure which might be completed later.”  To satisfy this latter point, if on first tile placement you complete two features, the first of which you convert to a castle and the second of which then completes the castle, do you not need to complete the castle and score it, all in the one turn?
11. Scoring order of completed features: I’ve seen references to “Each player receiving points chooses the order in which features resolve.”  I’ve struggled with this.  If more than one player is receiving points from a number of different features that have completed, who decides which feature is scored first etc.?  I have assumed the order for scoring is decided only by the active player.  I hope this is correct?
12. Redeployment from City of Carcassonne: 
12a) Can an abbot meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to a garden? 
12b) Can a meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to Baba Yaga’s hut?
13. Deployment to Leipzig.  It would be helpful to (exhaustively) define what does not break a road connection to Leipzig and what does. I have presumed small village, house, crossroads, road junction, trees or other incidental or minor feature (such as fruit trees, bazaar, bath house or festival) do not break the connection.  I have presumed cities, towers / tower foundations, lakes without a ferry connection, Bogatyr stone, Solovei Razboynik tree, acrobat spaces, circus spaces, crop circles, watch towers, shrines, abbeys, all types of monasteries, castles (German or expansion 8), German cathedrals, the city of Carcassonne, the Wheel of Fortune and the school do break the connection.  I am puzzled why the footnotes on Wikicarpedia suggest monasteries do not break the road connection – I have presumed they do.  Does this all work?
14. Watchtowers: does an expansion 8 castle qualify as a completed feature for scoring watchtowers?
15. Scoring Leipzig: If you have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter, do you score for special monastery functioning as a monastery, abbey tile, Darmstadt church, shrine or Baba Yaga’s hut.
16. Scoring Messages: With each new expansion added, there now seems to be quite a few scoring events during each Step 7 of the order of play (Leipzig, watchtowers, ringmaster points, teacher, fairy).  Does not each one of these separately represent a scoring event for the purposes of messenger scoring?  I am sure I’m missing a vital rule element that would make sense of this for me.
17. Besieged city.  Can only one knight escape through one monastery per turn (ie. The monastery once used is exhausted as an escape route that turn)?
18. Tiles next to monasteries: A German castle tile counts as one tile in completing a monastery (and reduces the score from 9 to 8 on completion).  Is this also true if the 4x4 wheel of fortune tile is next to a monastery (reducing the completion score to 6)? Or one of the City of Carcassonne 2x3 tiles?

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