Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Online Games and Competitions => World Cup of Carcassonne Central => Topic started by: MrNumbers on January 29, 2018, 04:20:20 AM
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Here are the fixtures for the Quarterfinal of the 2017 World Cup.
This year I have changed the format a little bit to avoid the situation, in which players could possibly play each other again in semifinal. This known problem was already discussed once (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=829.msg11213#msg11213).
Here are expansions that will be used during this final round. I have made some minor changes from last year (excluded Wind Roses completely, excluded A&M from final game etc.).
QF:
Traders and Builders + Abbey and Mayor + The Corn Circles + The Count of Carcassonne + GQ11 + The Phantom = 123 tiles (starting tile and 2 tiles from GQ11 are excluded).
GQ11 option "The Pig herd is present on the farm tile" is ON.
SF:
Inns and Cathedrals + The Tower + The Festival + The Goldmines + The German Monasteries + Mage and Witch = 134 tiles (cloisters from the base game have to be removed).
Final:
Traders and Builders + The Princess and The Dragon + Bridges, Castles and Bazaars + The River II + The Besiegers + The Flier + The Phantom = 163 tiles (starting tile is excluded).
Please, make appointments and play your games! Good luck to everyone!
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I think there's been some kind of mistake: I distinctly remember you saying that if any of the second-place group finishers were tied on group points then the tied player with the highest PD would get an automatic win at the QF stage?
Is this still the case or do I really have to play Leven... ::)
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Maybe I have said that if you need to play vs. acting World Cup champion then you automatically lose? ;D
Nevertheless, interesting games await us C:-)
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Maybe I have said that if you need to play vs. acting World Cup champion then you automatically lose? ;D
Nevertheless, interesting games await us C:-)
Automatic or manual, I have a feeling the outcome will be the same!
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Well Dan, welcome to my world! That's exactly the feeling i have when i play against you... >:D
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Well Dan, welcome to my world! That's exactly the feeling i have when i play against you... >:D
I'll know where to go when I need a few practice games then!
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Well Dan, welcome to my world! That's exactly the feeling i have when i play against you... >:D
I'll know where to go when I need a few practice games then!
I'll be happy to be your sparing partner! Maybe in a good day, I can be a "Leven". Maybe in a good day, we can al be a "Leven"! :o
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I have modified original post and added expansion list for knock-out stage. GL & HF! :D
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I have just tried out the quarter final set-up, and there is a problem with the deployment of followers into a farm with a barn. JCZ allows you to do this, both when a farm is joined and at the end, but the newly placed farmers just stay in the farm and do not score one point per city.
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I have just tried out the quarter final set-up, and there is a problem with the deployment of followers into a farm with a barn. JCZ allows you to do this, both when a farm is joined and at the end, but the newly placed farmers just stay in the farm and do not score one point per city.
With given information I propose to postpone all QF games until proper investigation of this case. Thanks, Steve, for testing and pointing on the bug!
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I have posted a screen shot in Slack. It will help you to see the problem. The file was too big to post on here, and I did not have time to 'crunch' it.
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Hurrah the pig farm is on. Quite right too.
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I have just tried out the quarter final set-up, and there is a problem with the deployment of followers into a farm with a barn. JCZ allows you to do this, both when a farm is joined and at the end, but the newly placed farmers just stay in the farm and do not score one point per city.
On my second run through tonight, I have just deployed a follower from the Blacksmith's quarter (roads) onto an unoccupied cloister and successfully scored 9 points. I think that I was not given the option of deploying from the cathedral. This is the first time I have tried the blacksmith's quarter, as I don't usually bother with 'robbing' roads, but I don't think that this has anything to do with the Abbey and Mayor, as was the other bug.
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Maybe I have said that if you need to play vs. acting World Cup champion then you automatically lose? ;D
Nevertheless, interesting games await us C:-)
Automatic or manual, I have a feeling the outcome will be the same!
I don't really understand this attitude by someone who won two leagues (out of three) last year, and had beaten me in the quarter final of the 2015 World Cup.
One thing is clear: there won't be any easy games in this stage of the competition. All participants are among the top 11 players of the recent Elo rankings. It's hard to predict who will be the winner.
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My money is on Dan ending 4th.
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Maybe I have said that if you need to play vs. acting World Cup champion then you automatically lose? ;D
Nevertheless, interesting games await us C:-)
Automatic or manual, I have a feeling the outcome will be the same!
I don't really understand this attitude by someone who won two leagues (out of three) last year, and had beaten me in the quarter final of the 2015 World Cup.
One thing is clear: there won't be any easy games in this stage of the competition. All participants are among the top 11 players of the recent Elo rankings. It's hard to predict who will be the winner.
It was all just banter; I'm sure it will be a good game whatever the outcome. Lots of good players and a very interesting/ challenging set of expansions will make this quite a competition!
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Hey folks playing quarter finals, has anyone got time for a practice game this evening?
kq :red-meeple:
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Hey folks playing quarter finals, has anyone got time for a practice game this evening?
kq :red-meeple:
Yep!
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TheSteveAllen found another JCZ bug which affects our World Cup quarter-final setup: the city segments on the GQ11 tiles are practically invisible for a wagon when it could move to an adjacent feature. I made screenshots about the CRCR tile but other GQ11 tiles have the same behaviour.
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I also spotted a bug in a practice game with Steve using these expansions.
When I played my abbey to complete a city, the option to place meeples from the City of Carcassonne into the newly completed city was not available even though there were meeples present and the Count was not in that segment...
I have very little experience with The Count but it seems this has introduced a number of little problems :(
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I also spotted a bug in a practice game with Steve using these expansions.
When I played my abbey to complete a city, the option to place meeples from the City of Carcassonne into the newly completed city was not available even though there were meeples present and the Count was not in that segment...
I have very little experience with The Count but it seems this has introduced a number of little problems :(
Good spot. I know nothing about programming, but I would guess that this came about because the abbey creates a unique situation whereby the city does indeed close but the tile just laid does not contain a city segment and is therefore not included in the city.
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Another one. Steve finished my cloister then happened this.
After reloading the game it immediately crashed with NullPointerException.
@MrNumbers: I think it would be better to postpone the City of Carcassonne to a later phase of the World Cup (or to completely leave it out) until farin can handle these issues.
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@MrNumbers: I think it would be better to postpone the City of Carcassonne to a later phase of the World Cup (or to completely leave it out) until farin can handle these issues.
I think the same applies to GQ11.
The only thing that isn't clear for me now - is A&M OK? There were some barn/follower/pig related bugs. Are these bugs appears only when playing with CoC?
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@MrNumbers: I think it would be better to postpone the City of Carcassonne to a later phase of the World Cup (or to completely leave it out) until farin can handle these issues.
I think the same applies to GQ11.
The only thing that isn't clear for me now - is A&M OK? There were some barn/follower/pig related bugs. Are these bugs appears only when playing with CoC?
Leven and I played last night with the QF set up minus the Count, and encountered no problems. However, I did try GQ11 on its own earlier by myself, and the wagon is definitely not working as it should. I will be writing a full report on my findings over the last few days in the near future when I get the time.
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Thanks to TheSteveAllen, as coordinator, and others, as testers, we can officially move on with competition :(y)
You can play your QF matches using last available JCZ v4.2.1 (http://jcloisterzone.com/builds/JCloisterZone-4.2.1.7z). It looks like all bugs are caught and games should be safe.
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Good luck to all. Let the ELO carnage commence
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Hey! Anyone available for a practice game tonight? Let me know, here or via PM.
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Face-to-Face Elo comparison for the QF
| Leven | 1416 vs. 1412 | danisthirty |
| Merlin_89 | 1372 vs. 1294 | zone2 |
| Jéré | 1455 vs. 1314 | khalidqasrawi |
| glh510 | 1377 vs. 1371 | MrNumbers |
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Being British, my money is on the underdogs. >:D
What prices are the bookies giving for zone2 and Khalid?
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Danisthirty and TheSteveAllen have found another Count of Carcassonne rules implementation inconsistence, so we need to wait for another small JCZ update from Farin. He is informed about it and will make a release as soon as possible.
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Danisthirty and TheSteveAllen have found another Count of Carcassonne rules implementation inconsistence, so we need to wait for another small JCZ update from Farin. He is informed about it and will make a release as soon as possible.
Is it bad? Possible to workaround? Because khalid and I are trying to schedule our game tonight or tomorrow before I leave for business trip and holidays after.
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Danisthirty and TheSteveAllen have found another Count of Carcassonne rules implementation inconsistence, so we need to wait for another small JCZ update from Farin. He is informed about it and will make a release as soon as possible.
Is it bad? Possible to workaround? Because khalid and I are trying to schedule our game tonight or tomorrow before I leave for business trip and holidays after.
This bug influences the final scoring in significant way: according to CAR players should take turns for deploying followers from CoC to incomplete features, one by one. JCZ implementation offers to deploy all followers at once, so only one turn per player. I think this could be crucial to one of the players.
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I think that bug is quite important! Perhaps we need to postpone until the bug is fixed...
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Yes, I see. Lets wait then. Khalid, I keep you updated about my availability. Good weekend!
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So, that bug is officially fixed in JCZ v4.3.0 (http://jcloisterzone.com/builds/JCloisterZone-4.3.0.7z), so QF matches can begin right now! :)
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Leven and I played our QF game this evening. It was a pretty intense 2 and a half hours but here are the results:
(http://www.dan.tehill.net/WC2017_QF_Leven_Scores.jpg)
(http://www.dan.tehill.net/WC2017_QF_Leven_Map.jpg)
Lots of action from start to finish, but the ending especially had a few exciting twists! Pretty tired now, but thanks for the game Leven! :) :(y)
Thanks also to TheSteveAllen, Jere and thodekey who practiced these expansions with me!
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I realise I didn't do much in the way of a write-up after this game so I thought I'd offer some thoughts... :)
The game was pretty slow to get started as we both settled into it for the first couple of dozen tiles. Leven seemed to focus mostly on developing the farm to the west and placed several farmers on it to make sure I didn't out-compete him for it. So it was already his farm in my mind and I was mostly interested in closing down his opportunities for growing it, but still he managed to keep it alive and I focussed on starting another farm elsewhere instead.
However, there were no good opportunities for him to claim his farm with his barn and every time he created one I seemed to draw a tile that he could have used to place his barn. On at least 2 or 3 occasions I used these tiles to take away this opportunity until eventually I surrendered to the fact that I couldn't stop him indefinitely and decided to claim the farm with my own barn, even though this meant giving him around 30 points for his farmers and 4 meeples back + pig. However, I'd managed to claim back an equivalent number of points by joining on a couple of farmers of my own + pig to MY new barn farm and pretty soon things were even again.
Immediately after placing my barn I used my Abbey to complete a city which I'd been using earlier to generate extra turns as it had my builder in it. This got me a decent handful of points, and a few trade tokens, but most importantly it prevented the pig herd tile from getting on to the bigger farm (something I'd previously been hoping to do with a cfff as I'd intended to put my barn somewhere on this farm before choosing to take Leven's farm instead). At this point in the game I felt like I had good control as I owned a big barn farm and had also claimed another farm serving 5 or 6 cities. I'd also managed to trap Leven's builder in a cccc gap where he'd played an uncharacteristically risky move earlier in the game and I'd leapt on the chance to slow him down!
I think Leven knew that he was on the back foot after this, but kept his score ticking over and made sure to take plenty of trade goods too. I was lucky enough to draw all of the Corn Circle tiles which gave me some extra influence over the game but mostly these were superfluous and didn't change very much. Similarly, the Count didn't make a huge difference either as we were generally able to counter each other by matching meeple placements within the City of Carcassonne so that neither of us had an advantage when it came to city closures. It did make a small difference on a couple of occasions where Leven was able to deploy to my barn farm upon connection of farmer to farm, as this meant we shared the points and I didn't have the chance to double my share with the pig.
Towards the end of the game Leven made a risky attempt to join his barn to my barn farm. So blocking this became my new top priority, although neither of us seemed to get any useful tiles straight away. Eventually I managed to block it by a crrr gap, and Leven drew the ccrr tile that he had been waiting patiently for immediately after! One of my final tiles was the crff CC tile with pitchfork which worked out very nicely by merging my secondary farm with my barn farm and adding another city to it in the process. But by this point the outcome had already been decided.
@Leven: I'm sorry for the poor luck you had on occasions, but as always, thanks very much for the excellent game!
Anyone else still playing or can I declare myself the champion for being the only person to have won a game in the K/O stage? ;)
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Anyone else still playing or can I declare myself the champion for being the only person to have won a game in the K/O stage? ;)
Can I be the winner yet? O:-)
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Anyone else still playing or can I declare myself the champion for being the only person to have won a game in the K/O stage? ;)
Can I be the winner yet? O:-)
We can play the final now because it seems that all other players have dropped out! :)) :)) :))
Khalid and I finally managed to play our QF game... Sorry for the delay, which is a bit unusual in my case. I had a business trip followed with holidays in the Alps without computer... Many thanks to Khalid for the efforts made to play this game as he was abroad when we played... I'm very curious to hear what can be delaying the other games... difficult to imagine that other participants can be busier than us! :o
Jéré :yellow-meeple: 302 - 257 :red-meeple: khalid
I had a great start, think luck was on my side. Played aggressively deploying meeples from the City of Carcassonne and built up quite a comfortable lead... but the whole game I had to manage a high level of risk that Khalid would come back because he was first to claim the best farm (and pretty much the only one) with his barn so I knew he would score a huge amount of points... tried my best to join my barn to this very valuable field but Khalid made use of his abbey to block my attempt. Good job!. Other scary moment happened when he forced me to remove my knight from a large city with trade goods (that only needed one tile to be completed)... with some luck I managed to get it back later and close it. Towards the end I needed curved roads to score more points with the farmer-pig-barn combo but it took some time for the tiles to appear so Khalid managed to block my guys with some brilliant placements.
I was leading in the points from start to finish but I've never been confident I would win... there were some stressful moments. Well played! Cheers
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Special request Mr. Organizer: Could we see an overview of the knock-out stage showing the tournament brackets? Please O:-) Thanks
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Special request Mr. Organizer: Could we see an overview of the knock-out stage showing the tournament brackets? Please O:-) Thanks
If I understood you right, you are particularly interested in semi-finals matching? ;)
Here is semi-finals x-score table.
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Special request Mr. Organizer: Could we see an overview of the knock-out stage showing the tournament brackets? Please O:-) Thanks
If I understood you right, you are particularly interested in semi-finals matching? ;)
Here is semi-finals x-score table.
Well almost :(y) :(y) If you type "tournament bracket" in Google, you will see nice images of what I'm looking for but what you gave is already good info... ;D What is good for the participants is to get this info at the very start of the stage so that each one can gauge how difficult their path to victory could be.
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Anyone else still playing or can I declare myself the champion for being the only person to have won a game in the K/O stage? ;)
Can I be the winner yet? O:-)
We can play the final now because it seems that all other players have dropped out! :)) :)) :))
I'm sorry Jéré but it's too late. I played the final against you weeks ago and you weren't there. It was close, but I was the eventual winner! O0
Seriously though, an update from Merlin_89/ zone2 and MrNumbers/ glh510 wouldn't go amiss! :)
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Seriously though, an update from Merlin_89/ zone2 and MrNumbers/ glh510 wouldn't go amiss! :)
We had our game scheduled yesterday, but suddenly my daughter got ill and needed my attention, so we had to postpone our match.
Merlin_89 and zone2 hopefully will have their match this week. They had some scheduling troubles before, but now, I hope, they gone.
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Third QF game there played.
MrNumbers vs. GLH510
342:300
The game was very close. Many times we had less than 10 points difference. GLH510 was first to put his barn in promising place (I spotted that place too, but didn't draw needed tile). His tactics also included stealing of trade goods and placing a meeple in CoC at any opportunity. So I needed to play the opponent's way and place my meeples there too. This payed me off as I won the biggest city of the game: when it was scored, we had even number of meeples in CoC, so it was useless to fly in. Of course, we used "pig-barn connect" when we can. GLH510 put his farmer early in the game in order to receive cfff tile and get connected to the farm, but ALL cfff tiles were drawn by me :)
At first I searched for opportunity to connect my barn to opponent's barn, but soon I realized, that I can build my own farm with barn not worse than his. As you can see, in the end our barns became even.
GLH510 realized some of his mistakes in the end of the game, for example, he had an opportunity to close my north city with 2 trade goods (and steal 20 points from me), but decided to use his builder turn instead. Also he could left some more meeples in CoC in order to steal uncompleted 10-points city during final scoring. But still it would give him only 30 points, which wasn't enough to win anyway. Still GLH510 succeeded in blocking my meeples in CoC, which I wanted to "parachute" onto some farms during final scoring.
Thanks for the game, GLH510! As I said you in the chat, this game wasn't a walk in the park! :D
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Zone2 :blue-meeple: vs Merlin_89 :yellow-meeple:
305 : 240
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Congratulations to MrNumbers and zone2. Commiserations to glh510 and Merlin_89...
So now two previous World Cup winners have been knocked out. And we are guaranteed to have a returning (and previously unsuccessful) finalist in either Jere or MrNumbers!
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Final x-score for QF round and fixtures for SF round.
In 3 of 4 games group stage runners-up won their games (Jéré is the only exception).
That means that B group is knocked-out completely, but C group has both players in Top-4.
And we are guaranteed to have a returning (and previously unsuccessful) finalist in either Jere or MrNumbers!
...and one non-guaranteed returning finalist in other pair :P
P.S. I added a write-up (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3804.msg57362#msg57362) for my game with GLH510.
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I've booked my place in the final! 8)
:blue-meeple: danisthirty 239 : 171 Zone2 :green-meeple:
(http://www.dan.tehill.net/SF_Zone2_Scores.jpg)
(http://www.dan.tehill.net/SF_Zone2_Map.png)
There was a lot going on with this game. Zone2 drew a couple of GMs early on and claimed them as abbots meaning he was two meeple short for most of the game. They were worth it though as they won him BIG points at the end! He lost another two meeples for about half of the game waiting for a cccf to steal a city of mine. I'd given up long before he eventually drew the tile he needed and withdrew my meeple using a Festival tile so that I could use him elsewhere but it wasn't until the last few tiles of the game that he eventually completed the city!
As always I seemed to have a lot of luck with the gold and scored the vast majority of it from roads. Zone2 wasn't quite so lucky in this respect and struggled to keep up, taking some risks which didn't always pay off for him.
The game would have been VERY different (and perhaps much higher scoring) if Towers hadn't been included. There was an early farm battle for the main farm which ended up in my favour after a daring but ultimately successful farmer kidnap. However, I couldn't then draw the required ffrr to join my lone farmer to the main farm for an additional 15 points. Zone2 used his tower pieces much more carefully in this game than when we last played in the Tower league and kept a couple back for the final few tiles whereas I ran out a bit earlier. I drew two GM tiles during the game and claimed both with abbots, but both were kidnapped, the second (far more valuable) one being taken with the last tile of the game!
Still, a fun game and a shame one of us had to lose. Thanks for the game Zone2! :(y) I'd better start thinking about the final now! :-\
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@MrNumbers @Jéré: Do you have a date in mind for your SF yet? O:-)
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@MrNumbers @Jéré: Do you have a date in mind for your SF yet? O:-)
We are discussing the date at the moment :D
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@MrNumbers @Jéré: Do you have a date in mind for your SF yet? O:-)
We are discussing the date at the moment :D
The date at the moment is the 20th March.
Does that help? ;)
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@MrNumbers @Jéré: Do you have a date in mind for your SF yet? O:-)
We are discussing the date at the moment :D
The date at the moment is the 20th March.
Does that help? ;)
OK, you caught me on incorrect usage of articles. Be proud of it :P
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Just in case anyone is interested, a polished video of my semi-final match with zone2 can be found here:
https://youtu.be/pzZUcO40zNo :(y)
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@MrNumbers @Jéré: Do you have a date in mind for your SF yet? O:-)
We are discussing the date at the moment :D
The date at the moment is the 20th March.
Does that help? ;)
OK, you caught me on incorrect usage of articles. Be proud of it :P
In the end we found out it was a fruit... and should be ripe this Friday. :D
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Thrilling semi-final game with Jéré.
MrNumbers vs. Jéré
203:178
The start was terrible for me: Jéré drew 5 tower tiles straight, only 6th tile came to me, as a result my 4 meeples were captured early. As a first tile of the game Jéré got cathedral, where he put his big meeple. All my attempts to connect failed - the reason described above. So soon that city just waited for cccf tile to be complete in Jéré's favor, moreover he put Mage into that city, so there were potentially 40 points! My opponent received such tile once (splitter from Festival), but didn't want to give me points too. Then some magic happened: I received one Mage tile - put away Mage, received second Mage tile - put Witch into that city, finally I received cccf splitter and split that city into 3 separated cities, two of them scored by me (10 points) and original city - by Jéré (11 points).
Then some mistakes by Jéré began. Firstly, as he already mentioned, he allowed me to return 2 of my meeples back by placing his meeples near tower tiles. Then he didn't notice that I started to put tower pieces to capture his valuable farmer (just two tiles above my 3-points farmer). As it was almost impossible to place new farmer without being captured, I have put my two farmers nearby and hoping for fffr (2 of them were in the bag yet). It was "all-in". Soon Jéré received such tile, but me also, so 27-points farm was won. Jéré started to do strange things, like capping the tower (south) and placing big meeple on the farm, not realizing that both fffr tile were gone already. Here I must notice another phenomenal luck by Jéré - he drew 9 of 10 festival tiles, so he always were able to retrieve his stuck meeples, while I struggled with meeple shortage (I received my only festival tile early in the game). I even captured my own meeples twice to get back some meeples. Also Jéré drew almost all gold tiles (you can notice our gold points balance).
In the final part of the game we fought for 21-point farm. Jéré put two tower tiles near my two meeples, but didn't want to capture them right away, as it would give me the opportunity to return them by paying ransom. I had only one meeple left by the moment and I decide to put the tower piece by myself and hoping Jéré wouldn't notice that move, and cap it in the next move. I actually succeeded in this, but I have no meeples left. Then Jéré made one more mistake: he put tower piece and captured my normal meeple-farmer (on cfcf splitter Mage tile). That gave me so needed meeple (I had one of Jéré's meeples captured) and I immediately capped that tower, in order not to allow to capture my big meeple. If Jéré wouldn't capture my farmer with his first tower piece, he would capture my big meeple with his next move and would at least equalize the farm, as I couldn't cap the tower (no meeples).
With his last attempt to save the game Jéré put his big meeple near my 18-points farm. As we found out later, amongst 4 tiles, which left in the bag, 3 was rrff curves, needed by Jéré, and one - ffff road splitter (with gold). This time luck was on my side and I drew ffff tile and prevented the hijack. One more attempt followed, this time with normal meeple, and another prevention.
So, I can't summarize it better than Jéré already did: his luck was compensated by his mistakes.
Good luck with bronze game!
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Congratulations MrNumbers. So the final will be between the 2014 runner-up and the 2015 runner-up!
Commiserations Jere. I'm sure it would have been a very tough fight for both players.
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Congrats MrNumbers!
The game can be summarized this way: I think the luck was on my side but I played so terribly that it compensated... I made way too many mistakes, like placing a meeple right next to a tower (2 times)... Am I blind?? 8) Another stupid mistake was forgetting that monasteries from base game were replaced by the german monasteries... :o Plus I think MrNumbers is a far superior player with the Tower expansion and played very well, so well and me so bad that in the end I would have been ashamed to win... It's a well deserved victory. :(y)
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Today I was busy with big event - my mother-in-law and father-in-law had 50th wedding anniversary :D
Now I had time and added the write-up of our match with Jéré.
So, now it's time to finish the World Cup 2017 already!
Final match:
MrNumbers vs. danisthirty
3rd place match:
Jéré vs. zone2
In both matches final setup of expansions must be used. Let's do it! C:-)
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So, now it's time to finish the World Cup 2017 already!
Final match:
MrNumbers vs. danisthirty
Is this Saturday too soon for you? 8)
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So, now it's time to finish the World Cup 2017 already!
Final match:
MrNumbers vs. danisthirty
Is this Saturday too soon for you? 8)
If I won't be out of town (there are such plans for Easter), then it is possible :D
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@MrNumbers:
Rosco (I believe) noticed that an old bug has made its way back into the game with regards to the princess and the phantom; when the princess is used to remove the last meeple from a city, the phantom (if available) can then be placed in the city. I always thought this was the correct behaviour but we discussed it a few years ago and it was determined that this should not be allowed. It doesn't break the game, but it is probably worth advising that this should be avoided if the opportunity to do so should arise in either game...
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@MrNumbers:
Rosco (I believe) noticed that an old bug has made its way back into the game with regards to the princess and the phantom; when the princess is used to remove the last meeple from a city, the phantom (if available) can then be placed in the city. I always thought this was the correct behaviour but we discussed it a few years ago and it was determined that this should not be allowed. It doesn't break the game, but it is probably worth advising that this should be avoided if the opportunity to do so should arise in either game...
Agreed. It can affect only 2 games, so we 4 should be careful about such behavior.
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@MrNumbers:
Rosco (I believe) noticed that an old bug has made its way back into the game with regards to the princess and the phantom; when the princess is used to remove the last meeple from a city, the phantom (if available) can then be placed in the city. I always thought this was the correct behaviour but we discussed it a few years ago and it was determined that this should not be allowed. It doesn't break the game, but it is probably worth advising that this should be avoided if the opportunity to do so should arise in either game...
Agreed. It can affect only 2 games, so we 4 should be careful about such behavior.
Just for the record then, this behaviour is officially outlawed?
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@MrNumbers:
Rosco (I believe) noticed that an old bug has made its way back into the game with regards to the princess and the phantom; when the princess is used to remove the last meeple from a city, the phantom (if available) can then be placed in the city. I always thought this was the correct behaviour but we discussed it a few years ago and it was determined that this should not be allowed. It doesn't break the game, but it is probably worth advising that this should be avoided if the opportunity to do so should arise in either game...
Agreed. It can affect only 2 games, so we 4 should be careful about such behavior.
Just for the record then, this behaviour is officially outlawed?
Yes, because it is against the CAR. We have corrected this bug in JCZ once, now it's back. We should be as close to CAR, as possible.
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@MrNumbers:
Rosco (I believe) noticed that an old bug has made its way back into the game with regards to the princess and the phantom; when the princess is used to remove the last meeple from a city, the phantom (if available) can then be placed in the city. I always thought this was the correct behaviour but we discussed it a few years ago and it was determined that this should not be allowed. It doesn't break the game, but it is probably worth advising that this should be avoided if the opportunity to do so should arise in either game...
Agreed. It can affect only 2 games, so we 4 should be careful about such behavior.
Just for the record then, this behaviour is officially outlawed?
Yes, because it is against the CAR. We have corrected this bug in JCZ once, now it's back. We should be as close to CAR, as possible.
Agree 100%. I just wanted to make sure it was formally stated so that we can all be clear about it :(y)
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I have logged this bug in the Jcz folder in carccentral, hopefully Farin will see it for next update.
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Game for bronze medal:
Jéré :yellow-meeple: 303 - 260 :blue-meeple: zone2
Quite balanced game. Fierce fight for the main field (zone2 controlled it but managed to steal it). Got all points for trade goods but I don't think it was based on luck as I had to close a city worth 20-pts (to zone2) to avoid zone2 getting both points for city and the goods. Highest bid was 15 for a tile I needed to connect the fields.
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Hello dudes,
Any news from the WC final? Just to know when i have to watch the online streaming... ;)
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Hello dudes,
Any news from the WC final? Just to know when i have to watch the online streaming... ;)
We were due to play on Saturday but I inadvertently delayed things to the point that it was too late for MrNumbers to start what is sure to be a long game as it was already 10:30pm his time. Unfortunately we weren't able to play on Sunday either, but are hoping to find an evening this week...
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Following another postponement, we're now looking to play on Friday evening.
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Any particular Friday evening, or are we to be left in suspense?
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Well, we started it and played about half of the tiles until a duplicated tile prompted MrNumbers to postpone the rest of the game while he decided what to do. I was expecting an update from him today.
My feeling is that since this was a known bug that had previously been accepted and other games allowed to go ahead it's difficult to see why this case should be an exception. The delay has already broken the flow of the game and marred it somewhat for me, but I will of course abide by the tournament organiser's ruling.
Keen to hear other opinions though?
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Assuming everyone was under the same conditions and the bug cannot and has not been abused with intent. It seems reasonable to continue, given it was a known-bug and the players accepted the change to 'normal' play before thr contest started.
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Well, we started it and played about half of the tiles until a duplicated tile prompted MrNumbers to postpone the rest of the game while he decided what to do. I was expecting an update from him today.
My feeling is that since this was a known bug that had previously been accepted and other games allowed to go ahead it's difficult to see why this case should be an exception. The delay has already broken the flow of the game and marred it somewhat for me, but I will of course abide by the tournament organiser's ruling.
Keen to hear other opinions though?
I must admit that I was a bit surprised that the 2 final matches were going ahead (including the 3rd place play off), as we were all aware of the tile duplication problem that has not yet been fixed, and which I reported about a month ago. I decided to let the ‘Alternative’ competition still run, as all players knew of the bug and it would be the same for both players.
If the game has been saved, I would suggest that it continues from that point as soon as Farin has had time to fix the problem.
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Dan asked me to look at the gamesave from the match he is in the process of having with Mr Numbers.
I can see that on turn 32 a Bazaar tile is drawn and to use their formal titles: TB.CRc.G then TB.CRc.W are both picked and both players place them.
The game resumes on turn 35 (after the 2 tiles are placed). On turn '76' the TB.CRc.G tile is drawn again.
I've carefully stepped over the code across turn 32.
At the start of turn 35, I could see a Dragon was drawn and the ActiveGroup's Vector still contains 118 tiles.
The TB.CRc.W tile has been removed. The TB.CRc.G tile remains in the deck.
Stepping back over the code, on turn 32 it seems the TilePacks are duplicated and 'passed by value' into the GameState just after the BaazarPhase.
Basically there are 2-gamestates each with one tile removed. They are out of sync, meaning one overwrites the other. Explaining how the removal of the 1st tile is lost.
I've not followed every step of the Bazaar phase to determine exactly why this happens, there are a lot of complex interactions.
It may be something to do with:
this specific Bazaar tile,
the tiles selected were next to each other in the deck,
the interaction of the Trader and Builder tiles, the Builder meeple or Fairy when the tiles were placed on turns 34 and 35,
or somehow later in the game:
that allows this tile to be re-selected.
I'd need to spend more time to work out a fix, which Farin would do better.
It's very easy to undo the last move that Dan played in the game, however. So the game could continue prior to the placement of the problematic TB.CRc.G tile.
But I've not found a reliable way of removing the tile from the game; because JCZ doesn't track remaining tiles; only all the tiles from the selected expansions minus each tile played, which results in the same error occurring.
I suspect it will be a trivial fix for Farin to resolve and the game could continue prior to Dan's last placement, removing the last placement in the save file; like the screenshot I've taken with the last turn revoked.
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Here is my story:
I wasn't aware of that bug. To be precise - what is this bug's main idea. I didn't find anything in "JCloisterZone FAQ, Suggestions & Bug Reports" forum, it was only briefly mentioned in Alternative World Cup thread:
Please go ahead and play your 'Final' games as JCZ currently stands. This is not a 'serious' competition for prizes, and is designed for enjoyment only, so I see no reason why we should not proceed with the minor bug that affects the bazaars. The program does not crash, and it will be the same advantage or disadvantage for both players, so I can see no harm in getting our 'Final' matches played with JCZ as it is.
(emphasis mine)
Based on that I let final matches to be played. But in fact it appeared to be a very serious bug, which affects the game in very significant way! In games like Final tile counting is serious part of the strategy. I have counted the tiles and, given that two cfcr tile are gone (2 most left) I created a hole so 2 Dan's meeples should be stuck forever (unless eaten by the Dragon). But in the subsequent turn Dan draw such tile again! And this is the only example I noticed. How could you notice any other such duplicates? The game becomes completely unpredictable, which it shouldn't be by default! Another annoying bug is with castles. According to rules, if castle is created and some feature is scored in the same turn, castle scoring is not triggered. This isn't realized that way in JCZ, which is another bug, not so serious, like the first one, but also could affect the game in serious way (in this game also, actually).
Given all the facts I don't see another option, but to exclude BC&B from Final expansions setup and start the game without it.
P.S. The whole post was written before I have read Decar's last reply.
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Yes, it's very important to know what tiles are coming up.
It looks like you have 3 meeple trapped in a large city and Dan drew a tile which should not have been in the bag!
Would you like me to identify any other duplicates that may have occurred during the game?
I suppose then you can compensate them or remove them from the bag is Farin is able to fix it.
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We have compensated for the castle bug already and we can again if it causes a problem. This does not affect the outcome of the game.
We can also resume our game from a point that I have two trapped meeples (on cloisters) in the same way that you have two trapped meeples in a city. This means we can complete it without affecting the outcome of the game.
I have a lot invested in this game and have fought hard for the position that I am in verses the position you are in. This ought to be respected, yet it feels it is being discarded simply because of a flaw that others have simply put aside and got on with the game. It could have been any tile, and either of us could have drawn it. It is random. Sometimes the odds are in your favour and sometimes they are not. But this aside, I have already offered to undo the advantage this gave me so that we can continue.
Based on the above, I will not take part in a rematch if this means that the half game we played last night will simply be discarded because you don't like it. Especially since you chose these expansions and instructed us to go ahead with the finals even though seemingly everyone else knew about the bug.
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I think the extra tile can be marked as discarded in the save file.
Please let me know if you wish me to identify any other possible duplicates and if you would like me to try and discard them before they are drawn.
I believe this means the game could continue with the correct tiles in the deck.
I can start this tomorrow if you would like.
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If this isn't to difficult, please, do it, Decar. And I would like to ask you to do the same in the future with the save file, which I'll do before last tile of the game is placed.
Tomorrow I have National championship, BTW, so don't expect me to respond quickly :-)
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If this isn't to difficult, please, do it, Decar. And I would like to ask you to do the same in the future with the save file, which I'll do before last tile of the game is placed.
Tomorrow I have National championship, BTW, so don't expect me to respond quickly :-)
That's come round quickly. Good luck MrNumbers! :(y)
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Good luck tomorrow Mr Numbers.
I will check for duplicate tiles. If/when they occur I will list them here, then at the current spot attempt to discard all that are necessary.
I will demonstrate the changes to the save file too, to ensure the game cannot be fixed.
I can't see any other duplicates on the board (though common road tiles may have happened, but these can be swapped out fairly I think), so I hope all can be removed prior to the game's end.
If not...well..let's hope that hasn't happened...
There is the possibility that future Bazaar tiles cause the same issue.
It may be necessary to check the number of tiles in the deck after any bazaar-phase tiles are placed.
If there is another occurrence, save the file and can force the discard.
I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow morning.
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I hope your tournament went to plan this morning MrNumbers.
I just want to provide you with the details I've uncovered from the save file that Dan shared with me.
This is quite a detailed description, which I've summarised here in plain English; my working out is below.
I have identified that the bazaar only removes the 2nd (last) tile when draw, leaving the 1st to be duplicated.
I've confirmed that no other duplicate tiles have been played.
I have identified that the following tiles should be removed from the deck: BA.L, TB.CRc.g, BA.RCr, BA.Rr, BB.CCCR, TB.CcR.c
The fix seems relatively trivial, it's a silly bug by all accounts, there's a for loop that changes the game state for each tile, which clones the tilepack.
I can fix it, but it will need some testing.
However: If I fix it, the game save will begin to load the incorrect tiles (this is hard to explain, but i tried below).
So I propose the following:
1) I create a patch for JCZ to: programatically discard the 6 duplicates so that you may continue the game
2) Fix it so future Bazaars remove cards from the deck correctly.
3) I test the behaviour with a 3rd party (TheSteveAllen are you busy?)
It's a easy fix, but can you confirm you're both happy to accept a patch of the JCZ jar to complete this game?
Below is how I've determined this...for the for the faint-hearted, but you can check out my debugging skillz:
Methodology:
I started looking at the tiles from Turn 12, after all the River2 tiles completed. Vector is the set of all tiles in the main deck, it excludes things like the Dragon tiles and Bazaars which is expected because it changes game state. This is a conversation I had with Farin before because it confused me. But it's a pretty good indicator the the remaining tiles:
Turn 12:
Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc+, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFR.b, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LCFc, BB.LRFr, BB.R.bi, BB.RFR.b, BB.RFR.bi, BE.CFR, BE.CRr, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RCc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CCc+.p, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc!.p, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.Ccc.p, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrC.g, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.NS.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, FL.Rr.SW.o, FL.Rr.d, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRc.w, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR!.c, TB.CcRR.w, TB.Ccc.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RCc.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
Turn 13: Bazaar tile drawn: BB.CFR.b
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc+, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFR.b, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LCFc, BB.LRFr, BB.R.bi, BB.RFR.b, BB.RFR.bi, BE.CFR, BE.CRr, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RCc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CCc+.p, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc!.p, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.Ccc.p, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrC.g, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.NS.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, FL.Rr.SW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRc.w, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR!.c, TB.CcRR.w, TB.Ccc.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RCc.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
Bazaar Phase tiles drawn: BA.L, BA.RFr
Turn 16 - Post Bazaar:
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc+, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LCFc, BB.LRFr, BB.R.bi, BB.RFR.b, BB.RFR.bi, BE.CFR, BE.CRr, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RCc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CCc+.p, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc!.p, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.Ccc.p, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrC.g, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.NS.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, FL.Rr.SW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRc.w, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR!.c, TB.CcRR.w, TB.Ccc.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RCc.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
There is an extra: BA.L to discard!
Turn 23: Bazaar Tile is drawn: BB.R.bi
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.R.bi, BB.RFR.b, BB.RFR.bi, BE.CFR, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RCc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CCc+.p, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc!.p, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.Ccc.p, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.NS.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, FL.Rr.SW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRc.w, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR!.c, TB.CcRR.w, TB.Ccc.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RCc.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
Bazaar Tiles drawn: TB.CcR.c, DG.C.d
Post Bazaar Turn 26:
Vector:Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BB.RFR.bi, BE.CFR, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RCc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CCc+.p, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc!.p, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.Ccc.p, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, FL.Rr.SW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRc.w, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR!.c, TB.CcRR.w, TB.Ccc.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RCc.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
An Extra TB:CcR.c to discard!
Turn 32: Bazaar Tile drawn: BB.RFR.bi
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BB.RFR.bi, BE.CFR, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CCc+.p, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, FL.Rr.SW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRc.w, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR.w, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RCc.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
Selected: TB.CRc.g, TB.CRc.w
Post Bazaar: Turn 35:
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CFR, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CCc+.p, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, FL.Rr.SW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR.w, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RCc.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
An Extra: TB.CRc.g to discard <--- Known Issue
Turn 38: Bazaar Tile drawn: BB.CFc.b
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.CFc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CFR, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR.w, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
Bazaar Tiles Drawn: BA.RCr, BA.C
Turn 41 - Post Bazaar
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CFR, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CcRR.w, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
An Extra: BA.RCr to Discard
Turn 43: Bazaar Tile Drawn: BB.Cccc.b
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.Cccc.b, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.Rr.v, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
Bazaar Tiles Selected: BA.Rr, DG.Rr.v
Turn 46 - Post Bazaar
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc.1, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.CcRr.p, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RFr.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, FL.Rr.NW.o, TB.CCc.c, TB.CCc.w, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCC.c, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
An Extra: BA.Rr to discard
Turn 55: Bazaar Tile Drawn - BB.Cccc.b
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.Cccc.b, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, TB.CCc.c, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
Bazaar Tiles Drawn: BB.CCCR, BA.C
Post Bazaar - Turn 58:
Vector: Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.CC.2, BA.CC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CcR, BE.Ccc, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CC.v, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.Ccc+.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, DG.RRR.g, DG.RrRr.g, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.WE.o, FL.RFr.d, TB.CCc.c, TB.CFc.w, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
An Extra: BB.CCCR to discard.
Summary:
So each time a Bazaar is drawn, only the last tile is removed from the GameState.
The following need to be discarded:
BA.L , TB.CcR.c, TB.CRc.g , BA.RCr, BA.Rr, BB.CCCR
The game is currently on turn 76, and the following tiles remain:
Vector(BA.C, BA.C, BA.CFC.2, BA.CFc+, BA.CFc+, BA.CRRR, BA.CRRR, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.CRr, BA.Cc+, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.Cc.1, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr, BA.CcRr+, BA.CcRr+, BA.Ccc, BA.Ccc, BA.CccR, BA.CccR+, BA.CccR+, BA.Cccc+, BA.L, BA.L, BA.LR, BA.LR, BA.RCr, BA.RCr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RFr, BA.RRR, BA.RRR, BA.RRRR, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.Rr, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BA.RrC, BB.CCCR, BB.CFR!, BB.F.b, BB.LRFr, BB.RFR.b, BE.CcR, BE.RrC, DG.C.v, DG.CRRR.p, DG.CRr.g, DG.Cc.p, DG.CcRr.g, DG.F.v, DG.R.v, FL.F.d, FL.F.o, FL.RFr.d, TB.CCc.c, TB.CR, TB.CRc.g, TB.CRcR.w, TB.Cc.g, TB.Cc.w, TB.CcCc.w, TB.CcR!.w, TB.CcR.c, TB.CcRC.c, TB.CcRC.g, TB.CccR.w, TB.LRRR, TB.RCc!.g, TB.RRC, TB.RRrr)
In conclusion of investigation:
So all the duplicate tiles can be removed: BA.L, TB.CRc.g, BA.RCr, BA.Rr, BB.CCCR, TB.CcR.c
The Bazaar only removes the 2nd (last tile) selected from the draw.
The save files do not store remaining tiles, nor discarded ones.
Instead it plays every turn through all the drawing/placement code.
It saves actions and saves salts to re-generate the same random number.
If I fix the bug, the bazaar will remove 2 random tiles from the vector : eg: #45 and #35.
But the next random tile drawn will be #100 - post-bug-fix tile #100 --> #101
So I think I need to add a specific clause to rescue this game...eg:
if(turn > 76) {
tilepack.drawn( the 6-problem tiles).discard()
}
and
if (turn >76) {
fix the bazaar
}
It's a relatively easy code change which I can build quickly.
I should test it properly with someone other than Dan or MrNumbers.
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I've produced a patch which I think you can use to finish the game. Logistically, it's a bit like finding out some extra tiles were in the bag and removing them before continuing and making sure it doesn't happen again.
The modifications to JCZ were trivial:
First: On turn 76 discard the duplicate tiles, then draw a new random tile.
Second: On turns < 76 if a Bazaar is drawn, keep doing what the code used to do.
For future turns: Draw the tile from the game state's tilepack, which ensures both tiles are removed.
Screenshots attached.
I've quickly run through and can now see two tiles being removed from the game state. Could do with some more testing, but seems solid.
Let me know how you want to proceed.
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I've produced a patch which I think you can use to finish the game. Logistically, it's a bit like finding out some extra tiles were in the bag and removing them before continuing and making sure it doesn't happen again.
The modifications to JCZ were trivial:
First: On turn 76 discard the duplicate tiles, then draw a new random tile.
Second: On turns < 76 if a Bazaar is drawn, keep doing what the code used to do.
For future turns: Draw the tile from the game state's tilepack, which ensures both tiles are removed.
Screenshots attached.
I've quickly run through and can now see two tiles being removed from the game state. Could do with some more testing, but seems solid.
Let me know how you want to proceed.
While you’re hacking the saved game could you add a function to replace both player names with string “Jéré”... yes, both, just to be sure... emoji code4]
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While you’re hacking the saved game could you add a function to replace both player names with string “Jéré”... yes, both, just to be sure... emoji code4]
Actually...you can do that already when the save loads ;D
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Ok Decar. How can I help? I should be available this evening.
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Hmmm, I wonder if the WC 2017 will be finished before the WC 2018 does...? :o
To avoid further complications like that, I suggest we start again a testing JCZ-team...along with the new expansions Farin introduced like the ferries. What do you think, TheSteveAllen and others?
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Many thanks for your extensive efforts Decar! (+1 merit) And sorry for not responding sooner, but I was allowing time to see if MrNumbers had anything to add first...
From what I can tell it sounds as though you've put a workaround in place to prevent the Bazaar bug from duplicating any more tiles and have removed the duplicate tiles that it had already created? If this is the case, I see no reason why the game can't go ahead from the save game as long as we can undo my last turn (where I placed the duplicate crcf with wheat) and have this tile discarded.
This is my preference as the game is already underway (and half complete).
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Thanks Dan, yes that's right. I believe I've fixed the issue of duplicate tiles from Bazaars.
I've created a build of JCZ which can be used to complete your game (and only your game).
The build can load your save, which I've removed the last tile placement from the save file you shared, so the TB.CRc.g tile can be discarded, along with the other duplicates I listed, before a fresh tile is drawn. Future Bazaars will correctly remove 2 tiles from the bag (ie: no duplicates).
I'd like to test it a bit more with TheSteveAllen to ensure my fix is robust. Can you confirm you're happy for us to do this MrNumbers?
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Can you confirm you're happy for us to do this MrNumbers?
Thanks also from me, Decar, for you hard programming work. Yes, I agree with Dan, if the bug is completely removed from the game, we could continue, after you with someone else will do necessary test runs.
We must keep in mind castle bug though. But I believe we can control it manually.
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Thanks MrNumbers,
I've not looked into the Castle bug, I recall you had noticed the it was scoring incorrectly.
I won't tinker with this now in the risk of changing too much (it's also a lot harder to test!)
TheSteveAllen has kindly offered to test a build with fixed Bazaars this evening. I'll keep you posted so you can both resume this important game! ^-^
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Just wanted to provide an update. I've been very busy during the evenings this week, so sorry this hasn't been quicker.
I've had a few issues creating a build that would run on Java JRE: 8.
I think that's fixed now, but you may need to upgrade.
We've done some pretty good testing of the Bazaar expansion and the fix seems solid.
TheSteveAllen's kindly offered to help testing, but JCZ does not run on Java 9+ on Macintosh. There is some code that uses a specific Apple library which has been removed.
I've removed that code for the time being, so hopefully TheSteve'll be able to do some testing this evening.
Thanks for helping out TheSteve!
MrNumbers: what OS do you use?
I think, the game should be able to resume in the next couple of days.
I just wanted to draw attention to this other issue which Dan found a few weeks ago. I've not been able to resolve this, it seems easy to fix at the end of the game, so please make sure you check your farms: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3899.0
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MrNumbers: what OS do you use?
I have Windows 10 Pro 64-bit.
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Thanks, I've been testing on my Windows 7 laptop, but will make sure there are no hidden surprises on windows 10.
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@MrNumbers - assuming all is well with the game and we're technically able to continue with it, will you be free to complete our game on perhaps Thursday or Friday this week? It would be good to get the knock-out stage knocked-out for good! 8)
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Friday would be good for me, assuming Decar will approve that the special "JCZ World Cup Final 2017 edition" is ready :)
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Sorry for the delay here:
1st build includes a fix for new games with Bazaar:
http://tehill.net/carcassonne/jcloisterzone/BazaarBuild/bazaarfix/
The 2nd link includes the above fix and also the additional code required to remove the duplicated tiles:
http://tehill.net/carcassonne/jcloisterzone/BazaarBuild/finalfix/
you'll need to use http://jcloisterzone.com/builds/JCloisterZone-4.3.0.7z and swap out the *.jar file.
Hopefully that's all you need to do.
In the same folder is the original save from Dan and the modified save (removing the last tile played).
Let me know if you need any help getting it running.
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Thanks Tom. The special edition works for me and I'm able to launch it with the save game!
Please can you confirm that you're able to do the same MrNumbers? If so, we should still be good for 8pm tomorrow... :(y)
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Can we start world cup 2018 next week so we can complete the tournament this year?
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Can we start world cup 2018 next week so we can complete the tournament this year?
Come on Richard, give them a chance to finish 2017. It’s not even June yet! ????
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Just making sure you both got this running ok:
Sorry for the delay here:
1st build includes a fix for new games with Bazaar:
http://tehill.net/carcassonne/jcloisterzone/BazaarBuild/bazaarfix/
The 2nd link includes the above fix and also the additional code required to remove the duplicated tiles:
http://tehill.net/carcassonne/jcloisterzone/BazaarBuild/finalfix/
you'll need to use http://jcloisterzone.com/builds/JCloisterZone-4.3.0.7z and swap out the *.jar file.
Hopefully that's all you need to do.
In the same folder is the original save from Dan and the modified save (removing the last tile played).
Let me know if you need any help getting it running.
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World Cup 2017 is officially over!
Tonight we finally finished our game with Danisthirty.
Final score:
MrNumbers :red-meeple: 224 : 206 :blue-meeple: Danisthirty
I will do a write-up tomorrow, now it's too late for it here.
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Hi MrNumbers,
gratulations to you as the winner of the CarcC World Cup 2017(2018).
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Gratulations MrNumbers, so I only lost against the winner ;D
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Congratulations to MrNumbers on his victory! Here is my account of the second half of our game:
With 4 trapped meeples and no builder, MrNumbers went into this game already at a huge disadvantage. A disadvantage that he extended after just a few tiles by allowing the dragon to eat both of my trapped monks! However, I struggled to capitalise on this and even though I had a lead of 10 - 20 points for most of the game, MrNumbers continued to use everything he had left to keep himself uncomfortably close behind.
The first key point in MrNumbers' favour was when he drew the cfrf tile which he used to free up one of his trapped meeples (completing a road and a small city in the process). He later had the opportunity to place a cloister adjacent to a besieged city that we had both been sharing which enabled his knight to escape back into his supply. I chose to do the same soon after which turned out to be a big mistake, as even though the city was unlikely (but certainly still possible) to complete, my builder was in the city and was working hard to generate me plenty of bonus turns which I soon missed once he'd been retired.
The basket that I had been putting all my eggs in came in the shape of a tidy little farm which grew steadily throughout the game. It seemed safe as MrNumbers didn't have the meeples left to challenge me for it, but he did put the meeples he had rescued to good use and before long it was tied with 3 farmers each. Coupled with his 20 bonus points for trade goods (most of what remained being trapped in uncompletable cities) it seemed obvious that I needed the farm outright to win the game. It wasn't until the last 12 tiles that things really started to go wrong though:
1) 2 of my meeples had earlier been deployed as knights into useless cities that I couldn't complete through lack of useful tiles drawn. They were worth just 7 points between them at the end of the game which was especially frustrating as there was an an unclaimed 14-point farm, and other free features which would have been valuable enough to have won the game for me if I'd been able to deploy them to these. Even though I had a free meeple though, I didn't have the chance to use it as...
2) ...within my last 4 turns, 2 of the tiles I drew were volcanoes which were effectively wasted since I couldn't use these to generate any points. :( Instead, I used them to move the dragon nearer to MrNumbers farmers which would have been great if not for...
3) ...MrNumbers drew the last dragon tile (an ffrr). Obviously it was 50/50 who was going to draw this (although I could have significantly improved my own chances of drawing it if I'd left my builder in the besieged city) but coupled with the 2 volcanoes I'd drawn this was a particularly bitter pill to swallow. There was a lovely place that I could have put this as well, which would have added 1 farmer each (our phantoms) onto the farm, increasing it's value somewhat, before removing one of MrNumber's farmers with the dragon. But alas, it wasn't to be. >:(
4) To add insult to injury, there were at least 2 tiles left in amongst the final few that could have completed the city that ended up incomplete with my builder in it, but MrNumbers drew both of them. If I'd drawn either of them I could have completed the city, taking a trade token in the process, for an additional 16 points (+10 for the trade token, +6 for the city being completed). With my bonus turn I could have then claimed the 14-point farm netting myself 30 points overall, but alas this wasn't to be either. :'(
And this my friends, is my sad tale of how I managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory; a great start followed up by some bad decisions and some very bad luck :-\. It didn't help of course that MrNumbers was on top form (despite claiming otherwise at the start of the game) and was as deserving of his victory as he always is. Thanks for the game MrNumbers! :(y) A big thanks also to Decar for his Java-coding skillz and for enabling us to finish the competition without any bugs or duplicate tiles, and to TheSteveAllen for all the practice games we played with the various combinations of expansions along the way.
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and to TheSteveAllen for all the practice games we played with the various combinations of expansions along the way.
You are more than welcome. I really enjoyed our various tussles along the way.
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A big thanks also to Decar for his Java-coding skillz and for enabling us to finish the competition without any bugs or duplicate tiles, and to TheSteveAllen for all the practice games we played with the various combinations of expansions along the way.
Great to hear the rest of the game took place without anomaly!
Thanks to Steve for his patience allowing me to mess about with all his Java installations - I hope you're back to normal now!
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Here is promised review of the final game.
I don’t remember much from first half of the game, except some separate facts: big city started to grow and it included many trade goods, so completion of it could guarantee trade goods advantage. We put much power into that city, including glomming on, flying into and removing knights with princess, but in the end I left with two trapped meeples and builder. Dan quickly secured this trap by adding a tile above, so I couldn’t even use a bridge (because some crcr tiles were still in the bag). During first half minor castle bug showed up: according to the rules castle can’t be scored in the turn it was created. That’s not how it is implemented in JCZ. We decided to track affected score difference manually, that is why my final score differs from screenshot by 2 points.
As you know, when serious bazaar bug appeared, the game was interrupted, until Decar was able to track down the bug and create unique JCZ edition, and TheSteveAllen properly tested it. Big THANK YOU, guys, for your efforts! The game continues, after I sorted out some personal problems and we at last could find time to play. This second part I started very badly, with my first (!) move I freed up two of Dan’s trapped monks, so on that moment Dan has 5+1 meeples in hand, but I had only 1+1. I really thought the game was over for me after that “move of shame”, but I decided to fight till the end. As Dan already told, I managed to free one meeple by drawing cfrf tile and one by placing cloister near huge besieged city. On a side note: I didn’t understand why Dan kept adding tiles with his builder to that highly unlikely completable city. Just to spend tiles? These tiles gave 0 points to him. Instead he could use his builder to both generate points and leave me less tiles, if builder would be in normal city. It looks like Dan soon enough admitted it by himself, so he also escaped from that city through cloister I placed earlier.
After that I had some lucky draws, including completion of 10-point city with clothes, which turned out to be the only one clothes piece earned in the game (additional +10 points). Game end is perfectly described by Dan. I can only add, that Dan perfectly spotted my attempt to add phantom to the farm (to win it), so he spent his ccff tile not to add to his builder, but to prevent such possibility (and just with my next tile I could achieve that!).
So, Dan really deserved victory, I was almost ready to such outcome, so after game ended I barely believed the result! Thanks for such thrilling game, buddy! And thanks once again to Decar and TheSteveAllen!
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Congrats MrNumbers for winning the most anticlimax World Cup! (don't get me wrong, still an impressive achievement!). Commiserations Dan!
Elo ratings are published here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=3129.msg58370#msg58370)
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Thanks to everyone for congratulations! :D
This was the longest online competition ever organized, with many reasons behind, but still it is over and we have results. I owe you some final information, which wasn't published officially, including final standings of all participants. Publishing it now.
Thanks to everyone who took part and helped in progress! I can once again specially mention Decar and TheSteveAllen for their much appreciated help ;)
I have one idea in mind, which could change the format of online competitions in the future, but we'll discuss it separately :)
See you on online battlefield! ;D
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So, Dan really deserved victory, I was almost ready to such outcome, so after game ended I barely believed the result!
I will publish a video of the complete game (both halves) once I have had a chance to put it together and make it look nice. I assume you don't have any objections to this MrNumbers?
I have watched the very end of our game a couple of times and am of the opinion that with 6 tiles left in the bag, 3 of them could have been game-winners for me (either of the ccffs or the ffrr with dragon). Still, if one of us was going to win and it wasn’t me, I’m glad it could be you. ;)
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I will publish a video of the complete game (both halves) once I have had a chance to put it together and make it look nice. I assume you don't have any objections to this MrNumbers?
I have watched the very end of our game a couple of times and am of the opinion that with 6 tiles left in the bag, 3 of them could have been game-winners for me (either of the ccffs or the ffrr with dragon). Still, if one of us was going to win and it wasn’t me, I’m glad it could be you. ;)
You are welcome to do so, Dan!
BTW, as I mentioned in my report, you had one ccff tile, but you put it in my phantom farm (with good reason, as it turned out later!). But, I probably should watch video first, maybe I've got something wrong :)
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Congratulations to:
- MrNumbers for ending up first in the WC!
- all of us for being part of the longest WC ever!
- Dan for playing yet another final and screwing things up >:D no seriously, it seems like lady luck wasn't on your side.
- MrNumbers again for setting up this competition in the first place!
And as someone has to ask first, here it goes...WHAT'S NEXT? ;)
Although a revised version of JCZ might be a good thing...
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And as someone has to ask first, here it goes...WHAT'S NEXT? ;)
Although a revised version of JCZ might be a good thing...
MrNumbers and I were looking at the possibility of having divisional leagues. I have a feeling that this might be happening soon. :)
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I will publish a video of the complete game (both halves) once I have had a chance to put it together and make it look nice. I assume you don't have any objections to this MrNumbers?
I have watched the very end of our game a couple of times and am of the opinion that with 6 tiles left in the bag, 3 of them could have been game-winners for me (either of the ccffs or the ffrr with dragon). Still, if one of us was going to win and it wasn’t me, I’m glad it could be you. ;)
You are welcome to do so, Dan!
BTW, as I mentioned in my report, you had one ccff tile, but you put it in my phantom farm (with good reason, as it turned out later!). But, I probably should watch video first, maybe I've got something wrong :)
Great, I'll post it as soon as it's sufficiently polished!
It's rarely a good idea to dwell on the ifs, buts and maybes, especially in a game like Carcassonne where the outcome is determined equally by the tiles you didn't draw as well as the tiles you did, but whilst I'm aware of the downfalls and that a different outcome is never guaranteed, here is my analysis of the last 10 tiles...
10 tiles left in the bag, MrNumbers to draw first:
1st out: ccff with wheat - could have got me a bonus turn, drawn by MrNumbers
2nd out: fffr with volcano - cant generate any points, but useful for putting dragon near MrNumbers' farmers
3rd out: cfcf with pennant - could have got me a bonus turn, drawn by MrNumbers
4th out: ffff with volcano - useless
5th out: cfff - would have completed my city for +19 points (including fairy) + bonus turn - drawn by MrNumbers
6th out: ccff - could have used to generate bonus turn and extend city but was too risky because of farm so chose to use it to block farm attempt
7th out: ffrr with dragon - could have used this to win farm based on where Dragon was at the time, drawn by MrNumbers
8th out: ccrr - generated 4 points for myself
9th out: cfff with volcano - would have completed my city for +19 points (including fairy) + bonus turn - drawn by MrNumbers
10th out: ccrf with barrel - used to drop pig onto farm
If the tiles had come out in the same order and I'd used my ccff to expand my city and take a bonus turn, I would have drawn the last ccrr to win the farm on my bonus turn AND completed my city with builder on my next turn. But nothing is guaranteed, and you can't assume the same opportunities would be available even by altering just 1 or 2 tiles.
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Video is now available via Carcassonne Central youtube channel:
https://youtu.be/AFK6376qXG8
Enjoy! 8) :(y)
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What a thrilling final game, thank you Dan for sharing the video. Regardless of the outcome of the game, big congrats to both of you.
If I'm not mistaken then with this world cup MrNumbers claimed his 3rd CarcC tournament victory (his previous titles: 2015 T&B League, 2016 P&D League), thereby equalizing the record of danisthirty. While Dan was undoubtedly the most successful player in 2017 by winning two leagues and being (a bit unlucky) runner-up at the world cup. :(y)
And of course I'd like to thank MrNumbers for organizing the tournament. I can't wait for the next one.
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Maybe a handicap system based upon ELO rating could be conceived to give the rest of the community a chance..
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Maybe a handicap system based upon ELO rating could be conceived to give the rest of the community a chance..
Richard, just to let you know that MrNumbers and I are working on something along these lines at the moment. There will be news on this soon.
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Sounds interesting