Carcassonne Central

Carc Central Community => General => Topic started by: totec55 on February 01, 2021, 10:43:40 AM

Title: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: totec55 on February 01, 2021, 10:43:40 AM
I just picked up a Rio Grande C1 Big Box 3 and would like to add the river to it. I am mostly familiar with the C2 version of the game and am having trouble deciding which C1 River to buy. I do understand the basic tile differences between The River I and II, and am most interested in tracking down RII.

Here is my dilemma:
A) Is the Rio Grande Games' version of The River from The Count, King & Robber the same as the version that was released in the C1 base game by Z-Man Games?
B) Does the C1 artwork between Rio Grande and Z-Man Games match?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on February 01, 2021, 11:18:58 AM
As I know, Rio Grande published C1 design and Z-Man C2 design. So I guess design will not match.
C2 Rivers was never published as standalone expansion, only as part of Basic game or Big Box 2017 (River I) or as part of expansion 6 King, Robber and river (River II).
River III was never published in C2.

River I have no junction, River II has. River II has also Volcano on last tile. so when playing with Dragon, dragon is ready for eat meeples from beginning. This change strategy (when no playing Dragon, it's just printed element on tile).

But usually players have both rivers and make decision every game, if play River I, River II, River I+II or without river. Then every game is different.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: totec55 on February 01, 2021, 11:55:07 AM
I agree on mix matching and changing the rivers around from game to game. That is how we play as well. But, for me branching into C1, I will be content with just one river...for now at least!

To further expand on my original post, the reason I specifically asked about the differences between Rio Grande and Z-Man is because I found a Z-Man C1 version for a reasonable price with The River. I had originally thought Z-Man only printed C2 as well. Could this possibly be a knock off or rebranded by Z-Man to sell off old Rio Grande Stock?


Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on February 01, 2021, 12:23:56 PM
Zman became the official US (and UK) publisher of Carcassonne in about 2012, after the Rio Grande license expired or wasn't renewed.

In 2015 Hans im Glueck (the German publisher and licensor) produced the new art style.

Zman printed the new art style in 2016, and for a time both versions of the art style were available.

Up until 2016, the Zman and Rio Grande editions were essentially identical.

I'm not aware of Zman purchasing unsold Rio stock and rebranding it.


Regarding rivers, I always find this analysis helpful:

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12081.phtml

You may just want to get expansion 6 (Count, King, and Robber).
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Meepledrone on February 01, 2021, 12:32:49 PM
RGG had the license for C1 Carcassonne until 2012 as far as I can see on the CAR v7.4, pages 312-315. The last thing they published was the Mini expansions. ZMG took over afterwards for C1 and maintained it for C2.

So for example Big Boxes 1, 2 & 3 where published by RGG and Big Boxes 4 and 5 by HiG. So you will find, copies of the base game in C1 and all the major expansions (and the Minis) until that date published by both of them.

The shades of green in RGG sets and in ZMG sets does not have to be consistent. This is a recurring issue even in HiG versions.

I can even see some differences in shade in C2...

EDIT: Oooops! Decar was faster than me.  :)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: totec55 on February 01, 2021, 01:07:20 PM
Thank you all for the help! That clears things up.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on February 01, 2021, 02:15:04 PM
Thanks @Meepledrone and @Decar for data about Z-Man C1 versions. I have to remember.
So @totec55 good luck there are still differences on green of grass (fields) in every edition, every publisher and even two different expansions by one publisher both in same design (c1 for example) ;-)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on February 01, 2021, 02:26:58 PM
My garden has at least 3 species of grass growing in it, and it's nowhere near the size or magnitude of the green pastures that surround Carcassonne.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: shushman on February 02, 2021, 12:45:12 AM
one quick search on an interweb auction site later and I found the following examples to fit your needs for the artwork that you have:


Since the links to the various sites that have photos were previously removed:

Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 05, 2021, 11:37:06 AM
The River 3 only came in Big Box 5, is that correct? -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Meepledrone on March 05, 2021, 11:43:47 AM
Yep... That's correct.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 05, 2021, 11:56:07 AM
Do we think that the 20th Anniversary edition will now be River 4? -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Meepledrone on March 05, 2021, 11:59:50 AM
It depends on what we consider the River in Big Box 6 is. It is the same as River I included in the base game but featuring an expansion symbol. Is that enough to consider it C2 River III? I would say no.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on March 05, 2021, 12:03:12 PM
The entire river in the 20th anniversary is shown on the other thread, it seems unique enough to warrant another title.

The titles the River and the River II are the chosen titles from HiG.
The other titles are titles given by the community.
River 3 is just a variation on River 1. I'd rather this was BigBox 5 river.
I'm up for calling it the Jubilee River, as it's clearer what it is.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 05, 2021, 12:05:38 PM
I'm up for calling it the Jubilee River

Awesomeness
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on March 05, 2021, 12:10:18 PM
Not to be confused with the Jubbly River from Mr Freeze
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 05, 2021, 12:24:10 PM
Nor combined. Tiles and ice pops would not be a good combination
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on March 05, 2021, 12:28:29 PM
Would put the uv printing to the test that's for sure!
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: DIN0 on March 05, 2021, 01:34:35 PM
The entire river in the 20th anniversary is shown on the other thread, it seems unique enough to warrant another title.

The titles the River and the River II are the chosen titles from HiG.
The other titles are titles given by the community.
River 3 is just a variation on River 1. I'd rather this was BigBox 5 river.
I'm up for calling it the Jubilee River, as it's clearer what it is.
Agreed. I never use the term 'River III' that is just a frequent fan name. The more accurate name is River I BigBox 5 edition.
As for the 20th anniversary River, that is up for discussion. It is essentially another variant of CII River I, but it is extended by 5 brand new configuration tiles, has UV-print + easter eggs characteristic of that version, and sports a unique double-tile spring with a big 20. So I agree it is more than just another version of River I.
Decar's proposed Jubilee River is suitable. Alternative names: 20th anniversary River, 20th Jubilee River, River 20.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Gagoune on March 05, 2021, 03:05:26 PM
Decar's proposed Jubilee River is suitable. Alternative names: 20th anniversary River, 20th Jubilee River, River 20.
Agreed with he discussion... And the shorter the better, here is my opinion: "TMUP20AJRWDTS" code name for "The magnificient UV-printed 20th anniversaty Jubilee River with double-tile spring"...  >:D
No, seriously... "River 20" or River 20th or something like that...
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 05, 2021, 03:15:54 PM
"TMUP20AJRWDTS"

Hahahaha. For me, it's Der Fluss that kills the farmers :-( But it sure is pretty -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 06, 2021, 12:26:03 AM
River III was adopred also by HiG, when you check available spare tiles on condco.de https://cundco.de/media/pdf/g0/18/32/Plattchenliste-05-02-2021.pdf
They adopted list made by Carcassonne-Forum.de with tile list
River III is River from BigBox 2017 - it's nothing else like River I but with River symbol.

But River III is called also BigBox 5 (2014) river in C1 with 2 tiles with sheep and 2 tiles with vineyard - this is from list on carcassonne-forum.de (don't have link)

So We have River III C1 (BigBox5 - 2014) and River III C2 (BigBox6 - 2017) with difference that River III C2 is missing sheeps and vineyards.

So I'm for rename River III C2 BigBox 2017. This is just River I with expansion symbol.

Due there is 20 on spring double tile, I will call it River 20.
So How will be called this river depends partly on CarcF.de
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 06, 2021, 11:32:45 AM

So How will be called this river depends partly on CarcF.de

Is CarcF a very influential community?
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 06, 2021, 12:30:03 PM

So How will be called this river depends partly on CarcF.de

Is CarcF a very influential community?

Well, most of people have direct connections to HiG and also to Klaus-Jürgen Wrede
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 06, 2021, 12:34:34 PM
Interesting -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: DIN0 on March 06, 2021, 01:42:33 PM
Well yes, but doesn't change the fact that River III is not an official name. It is in that document because it was made by fans who referred to it as such. But really it is just a version of River I (and there are many of those).

Anyway River 20 is a suitable name for the Jubilee edition. The new name is warranted by new layout.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on March 06, 2021, 01:58:42 PM
The advantage of calling it the Jubilee 20 River is it tells people where it comes from, and given it's not available anywhere else yet, that makes it unambiguous.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 06, 2021, 02:37:41 PM
Speaking of CarcF, here's the Google translation version of what's happening there:

I have one suggection.
Currently we have Fluss III and C2 - Fluss III which are different, because C1 Fluss III include also 2 tiles with sheep and 2 tiles with vineyard.
Currently we have new Fluss in 20 Aniiverasy Edition with double tile sping and 2 ends.
So there will be by comparision of tiles and design:
Fluss C1 = Fluss C2
Fluss II C1 = Fluss II C2
Fluss III C1 - this has no equivalend in C2
----------- - Fluss III C2 - same as Fluss C2 but with river symbol on tiles - and can be interpredet as Fluss III C1 replacement, which is not!
----------- - Fluss 20 C2 - from 20 Anniversary Edition

So we have 5 different Rivers by tiles and elements on tiles. Where Fluss I and Fluss II have equivalent in C1/C2. All other 3 rivers has no equivalent.
Just that Fluss III C2 equals Fluss C2.
Will be better name for Fluss III C2 something like Fluss C2+ or Fluss+ C2?

link: https://www.carcassonne-forum.de/viewtopic.php?f=81&t=242&start=270#p72062
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: DIN0 on March 06, 2021, 02:52:53 PM
The advantage of calling it the Jubilee 20 River is it tells people where it comes from, and given it's not available anywhere else yet, that makes it unambiguous.
Indeed  :(y) I concur.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: totec55 on March 06, 2021, 05:09:22 PM
I cast my vote for "Jubilee River".

It's amazing how convoluted the rivers have become just from some minor variations.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on March 08, 2021, 02:39:22 AM
It looks like every tile in the Jubilee box has alternative art work to the typical base game.  If alternative art is sufficient to increment a version, this would be Carcassonne 3  :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 08, 2021, 05:23:43 AM
It looks like every tile in the Jubilee box has alternative art work to the typical base game.  If alternative art is sufficient to increment a version, this would be Carcassonne 3  :o :o :o :o
You are bad guy today! :D
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 08, 2021, 08:47:48 AM
It looks like every tile in the Jubilee box has alternative art work to the typical base game.  If alternative art is sufficient to increment a version, this would be Carcassonne 3  :o :o :o :o
You are bad guy today! :D

Indeed, I think that he has sparked the debate about the following topic. If the change is more of a change in quantity of the amount of buildings in a city or other eye-candy, rather than the quality, then does it qualify as a full iteration? If it's not really different, does simply more count as a new version? -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Meepledrone on March 08, 2021, 08:56:48 AM
The cropped city edges are a sneak peek of C3...  >:D
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 08, 2021, 09:18:08 AM
Well, given that the Peasant Revolts and now 20th Jubilee both have them, you very well could be correct. -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: corinthiens13 on March 08, 2021, 12:29:05 PM
The cropped city edges are a sneak peek of C3...  >:D

It looks like every tile in the Jubilee box has alternative art work to the typical base game.  If alternative art is sufficient to increment a version, this would be Carcassonne 3  :o :o :o :o

I really do not understand why it'd be called C3...  ???

All the added flags, banners and easter eggs are for the jubilee edition only, that's a special edition design, not a new design.

So the only change that may be kept for future releases are the buildings density (and thus the chopped buildings at the tile's edge).
That's not a new design either, nothing changes, roads are the same, fields are the same, monasteries are the same, even cities are the same design, they only have an increased amount of houses, houses that still have the same design as previous releases.

Where's the "new" in copy/pasting houses on a city tile? That could eventually be C2.2 (2.1 beeing the city's lighter background), but C3 ? ? ?  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Whaleyland on March 08, 2021, 12:50:17 PM
I agree with corinthiens13, this is not C3. It is C2.2. A C3 will have a new artist just like C2 replaced Doris Mäthaus with Anne Pätzke. When they replace Anne with someone else (and I don't just me an overzealous tile editor, as seems to be the case for the Jubilee Edition), then we can start talking about C3.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: DIN0 on March 08, 2021, 05:28:43 PM
Agreed. Certainly not C3.
C3 would only start with a new art style..
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: totec55 on March 08, 2021, 08:37:17 PM
Well folks, I couldn't decide on which C1 River to purchase, so I just tracked them all down. I also added a few extra fan made tiles. The C1 addiction has hit hard.

(Sorry for the glare in the photo)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 08, 2021, 09:43:07 PM
Would you mind explaining each of them from left to right, please? -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: corinthiens13 on March 08, 2021, 10:53:15 PM
Would you mind explaining each of them from left to right, please? -  :pink-meeple:

It's river 2 expansion, river 2 from expansion 6, river 1 from big box 5 (also called river 3), original river 1, and city with a river through it +GQ11 tiles http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4874.0 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4874.0) :yellow-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 08, 2021, 10:59:10 PM
Wow, amazing!

What's the one on the far right? A fan expansion?

- :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: corinthiens13 on March 08, 2021, 11:01:41 PM
Wow, amazing!

What's the one on the far right? A fan expansion?

- :pink-meeple:

Yes (I listed them from left to right).

Oh, and I didn't see that the right one do also contain GQ11 tiles (river source and river with two cities).
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: totec55 on March 08, 2021, 11:59:46 PM
You got them corinthiens13! There are also a few tiles mixed in on the right from "Pirate Coast" and "Fairy Tales".

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=173
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=50.

Allograft, both River IIs are the same mechanically. The only difference is that they come from different packages and one has a watermark while the other does not. As stated, River I and "River III" are basically the same. River III has tiles with sheep and vineyards for play with the Hills and Sheep expansion though. Here is the Wikicarpedia link for more info on the River tiles if you are interested:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on March 09, 2021, 01:32:39 AM
Well I know about 38 fan expansions contains river tiles :D (ok some of them are from spin offs - maybe 8-9)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on March 09, 2021, 09:27:42 AM

Yes (I listed them from left to right).


Apologies, my word choice has been the source of some confusion in several threads lately. But thank you for clarifying, I had seen the forest and more river expansions but I hadn't yet seen the city with a river expansion in the downloads section yet.

Very impressive all around for sure. -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Jubilee Speculation Thread
Post by: DIN0 on March 27, 2021, 08:50:24 AM
If you are talking about the spare tiles list, that was merely adopted from CarcassonneForum, they are the ones who put River III there, it is not an official name.
They just spared them the work of constructing the list, and HiG didn't bother with something like that.
It doesn't make it official. It's just a fan name.
Title: Re: Jubilee Speculation Thread
Post by: Allograft on March 27, 2021, 09:55:18 AM
But it’s got sheep! -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: DIN0 on March 27, 2021, 11:30:01 AM
It's got sheep and vineyard, C2 River has garden, but they are still variants of River I, not a new River. In order for River (or any other "successor expansion") to have a number, it would need to have a new layout of the tiles, not just few added symbols - also the name with a number needs to come directly from HiG, not from the fans. Prime examples are of course River I & River II; Halflings I & Halflings II; Crop circles I & Crop circles II.

Another obvious indication is that HiG designates River I with the "waves" watermark, which is (as it should be) shared by C1 River I from BB5, and C2 River I from BB6.


Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: danisthirty on March 31, 2021, 03:15:00 AM
Well folks, I couldn't decide on which C1 River to purchase, so I just tracked them all down. I also added a few extra fan made tiles. The C1 addiction has hit hard.

Did you also include the river from the PC/ CD-ROM version of the game which had the copy-protection codes on the back?
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Meepledrone on March 31, 2021, 03:21:48 AM
Ha ha ha!

Sawing the seeds of dispair maybe?  :o
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: corinthiens13 on March 31, 2021, 03:27:01 AM
Ha ha, I didn't know these existed... Is there something Carcassonne related rarer than this river?

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/974527/carcassonne-river-where-these-tiles-come (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/974527/carcassonne-river-where-these-tiles-come)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: danisthirty on March 31, 2021, 03:39:20 AM
Sawing the seeds of dispair maybe?  :o

It's my job now that I'm past my thirties and have to be a grumpy old man!

Ha ha, I didn't know these existed... Is there something Carcassonne related rarer than this river?

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/974527/carcassonne-river-where-these-tiles-come (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/974527/carcassonne-river-where-these-tiles-come)

Yes, that's it. I think there are rarer items but that's certainly one of the weirdest! See section #25 of the
Carcassonne FAQ (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4621) for more detail :D :(y)

The fronts are no different to regular River 1 but there's no difference between the River 2 tiles that come in the River 2 mini-expansion vs the ones that come with expansion #6 either so I thought it was still worth mentioning...
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: totec55 on March 31, 2021, 06:05:31 AM
Well folks, I couldn't decide on which C1 River to purchase, so I just tracked them all down. I also added a few extra fan made tiles. The C1 addiction has hit hard.

Did you also include the river from the PC/ CD-ROM version of the game which had the copy-protection codes on the back?

Can I give you a -1 for crushing my happiness :'(? Totally kidding ;D!

That is an awesome bit of history! But, I will try to be satisfied with the ones I have. As much as I like to collect, I am usually content with at least one of any expansion that has any functional difference (though my OCD has me buying more than I should at times!).

Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: DIN0 on March 31, 2021, 06:25:08 AM
Quote
Can I give you a -1 for crushing my happiness :'(?
Prepare to get them crushed way further sometime in May  >:D
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: danisthirty on March 31, 2021, 06:45:41 AM
Can I give you a -1 for crushing my happiness :'(? Totally kidding ;D!

You think I'd have 257 merit if I allowed people to demerit me every time I crushed their happiness? -257 perhaps...
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 24, 2021, 07:51:59 AM
I have a standard copy of River 1 from RGG base 2002 English edition “includes free river expansion” which has the usual dark backs.

I also have a standard looking River 1 with light grey backs that came bundled with a load of pre-watermark C1. Most of the sets have German rules and it came in a 2002 HiG base (no river), so could this be the HiG Der Fluss 2001 or the Cundco OEM 2001?

I haven’t been able to find info here or BGG on light coloured backs for River 1 except relating to the river in BB5 which it definitely is not. Can anyone help me work out where it is from?

Incidentally, I also have a copy of River 1 with the copy protection codes which also has the dark backs. I’ve seen danisthirty’s note on this in the FAQ; is this any more than a curiosity?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: danisthirty on August 24, 2021, 07:57:26 AM
Incidentally, I also have a copy of River 1 with the copy protection codes which also has the dark backs. I’ve seen danisthirty’s note on this in the FAQ; is this any more than a curiosity?

Wow, someone read my FAQ! Excellent :) :(y) You can have a merit for that...
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Meepledrone on August 24, 2021, 09:38:09 AM
Ha ha ha! Did you have any reservations about that?
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Willem on August 24, 2021, 11:09:44 AM
Incidentally, I also have a copy of River 1 with the copy protection codes which also has the dark backs. I’ve seen danisthirty’s note on this in the FAQ; is this any more than a curiosity?
The copy protection code tiles are used for exactly that.
They have codes that you can be asked to enter when playing the computer game. Other than that, you play them as per usual
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 24, 2021, 11:33:28 AM
Incidentally, I also have a copy of River 1 with the copy protection codes which also has the dark backs. I’ve seen danisthirty’s note on this in the FAQ; is this any more than a curiosity?
The copy protection code tiles are used for exactly that.
They have codes that you can be asked to enter when playing the computer game. Other than that, you play them as per usual

Yes, I am of an age where I remember dealing with such cunning devices on my (mainly) legit computer games in the nineties and noughties. I was wondering how interesting a Carcassonne item it is and whether I should be that bothered about keeping it unpunched.

Any insight on the origin of the light-backed River 1?

Cheers!
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Meepledrone on August 24, 2021, 11:51:27 AM
River III has light grey backs. This is the C1 River I version included in Big Box 5 featuring vineyards and sheep.

Check the notes on River III here:

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#Contents (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#Contents)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Decar on August 24, 2021, 11:57:13 AM
whether I should be that bothered about keeping it unpunched.

Unpunched.... oooh
I suspect there will be interest from the super collectors.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Willem on August 24, 2021, 01:14:05 PM
I got the game with the tiles. If anything, those tiles keep falling out of the sheets.
If you've got another River 1 to play, you can keep the coded one as collectors item; that's what I have mine as.

With regards to the light coloured backs of your river 1; I'd have to check. I've got most/all different releases of the River 1, but due to a house move my carc collections is almost all boxed up. So it might take a while before I can check if I've got a matching river 1
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 24, 2021, 03:35:48 PM
Thanks for the replies.

River III has light grey backs. This is the C1 River I version included in Big Box 5 featuring vineyards and sheep.

Check the notes on River III here:

https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#Contents (https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/River_(1st_edition)#Contents)

Yes I used that page (amongst others) as a reference and it isn't River III; there are no sheep, vineyards or watermarks. The fronts are standard-issue River 1. I have attached a photo to confirm. The tiles are sleeved so they are shiny but you get the gist.

I got the game with the tiles. If anything, those tiles keep falling out of the sheets.
If you've got another River 1 to play, you can keep the coded one as collectors item; that's what I have mine as.

Yes those tiles want to be free...

That is my intention too.

Unpunched.... oooh
I suspect there will be interest from the super collectors.

Ha, perhaps some day I will be able to trade it for a fleeting hold of a single Die Kornkreise 1 tile, or whatever the exchange rate is at the time.

Any further ideas regarding the river tiles would be appreciated!

EDIT: photos changed to show consistent rotation with back and tile close up
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 25, 2021, 02:24:20 AM
Here is another photo showing the light and dark-backed comparisons.

That is the river from RGG 2002 on the left (https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameversion/170612/english-edition-2002-river), compared to the mystery river on the right.

All insights are welcome!
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 26, 2021, 01:59:25 AM
So, after much discussion and scouring of the internet, I think I have identified the source of the river. I read somewhere that some publishers have included the river in expansions, so I went through all the individual rules sheets included in the bundle and identified Dutch expansions 1 and 2, and German everything else.

Having properly consulted the included rule sheet for Carcassonne De uitbreiding it shows a rules section for the River which suggests this: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgameversion/21197/dutch-edition-2002-river-expansion

This edition fits with the age of the rest of the bundle, the darker/ bluer green, and lack of watermarks consistent across the base and expansions 1-4. It would fit with early licensee publishers departing from the standard too.

Either way, the evidence supports the hypothesis of Dutch 2002 I&C as the origin. If someone can confirm it, that would be great!

 
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 26, 2021, 02:21:08 AM
I repost this question also on Czech forum
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Willem on August 26, 2021, 03:01:19 AM
That's very interesting!
I think I've got the old Dutch version of I&C somewhere, so once I can, I'll have a look (this might take a while though).

The other interesting piece, is that those rules refer to the river as "the limited available expansions from the 10th Spellenspektakel"
The Spellenspektakel is an annual game convention in the Netherlands. At its 10th anniversary, the River was first given out in the Netherlands. This was in a ziplock bag, with a special piece of text.
Picture:
(https://i.ibb.co/y4HrTDS/IMG-20210314-151952.jpg) (https://ibb.co/y4HrTDS)
This river actually did have dark backs, so interesting if it turns out the "reprint" as part of I&C had light backs
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 26, 2021, 03:51:25 AM
Cool, thanks!

The truth is out there.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 26, 2021, 07:27:31 AM
Check video on this page:
https://www.leukomtespelen.nl/spellen/carcassonne-de-uitbreiding-bordspel/ (https://www.leukomtespelen.nl/spellen/carcassonne-de-uitbreiding-bordspel/)
And this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfg0GRAMhWg&t=160s&ab_channel=deSpellenreporter (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yfg0GRAMhWg&t=160s&ab_channel=deSpellenreporter)
Reporter turn river tiles and they are with gray backs.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 26, 2021, 09:37:56 AM
Woohoo! Mystery solved, thanks! +1 from me
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 26, 2021, 11:42:47 AM
No problem! Anyway also Czech BB5 River III has gray backs

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Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 26, 2021, 12:23:36 PM
So, after all this discussion about rivers I have worked out that if madness truly overtakes me at some point, I could put the following different rivers on the table:

River I (light back)
River I (dark back)
River I (dark back with copy protection codes)
River II (no watermark, dark back)
River II (watermark, expansion 6, dark back)
River III* (watermark, BB5, light back)

Does this count as completionism? I wasn't even trying. I am not sure if I should be pleased, or concerned.

* no offence intended to those defenders of the official name
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 26, 2021, 10:42:08 PM
Ok. And we speak only about C1 river.

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Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Halfling on August 27, 2021, 11:37:45 PM
Isn't there a nice new long river with the delayed 20th anniv edition? Can't be completionist with only half the tiles can you?
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 28, 2021, 01:48:21 AM
Ha, yes that was just talking about C1 sets.

I personally haven't stumbled across as much variation in C2 but I don't know. I am happy to be enlightened; for me that is what these discussions are about. As far as I have seen, there are:

C2 River I (no watermark, base)
C2 River I (watermark, BB6)
C2 River II (watermark, expansion 6)
C2 River20?

I am still waiting for my Z-man Anniversary edition to exist; May, became July, became September... we shall see. HiG should make an expansion that includes a flying pig.
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on August 28, 2021, 08:50:23 AM
a flying pig.

Luftwurst? -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: unclewill on August 28, 2021, 10:47:02 AM
a flying pig.

Luftwurst? -  :pink-meeple:

That deserves a merit!  :)
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Allograft on August 28, 2021, 07:46:20 PM
Thank you, sir -  :pink-meeple:
Title: Re: Need help deciding which "The River " to buy.
Post by: Bumsakalaka on August 30, 2021, 04:38:24 AM
And what will do that levitation pig?

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