Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Online Games and Competitions => Leagues (including expansion leagues) => Topic started by: danisthirty on May 05, 2015, 04:06:10 AM
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Hi all.
For the sake of clarity, I’ve created this thread separately from the voting thread (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1715) so that anyone who wishes to be included in our next Expansion League can sign up here, regardless of what the expansion ends up being. Please let me know as soon as possible as it’d be nice to get our latest competition going sooner rather than later...
So with this in mind, let me be the first to say “I’m in!” :) :(y)
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I'm in!!!
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I’m in!
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I am - surprise-surprise! - in! :D
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I’m in!
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Me 2!
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I'm in!
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Aiming as well. ;)
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Hi guys,
Unfortunately I don't think I can participate in this one. I'll be away for all of June working at the European Games in Baku, and the work will be all day, every day. My window for organising games would be very small, so I think it's best if I just stay out of this league.
Good luck to all!
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come on¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡
i'm in
;D
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Hi guys,
Unfortunately I don't think I can participate in this one. I'll be away for all of June working at the European Games in Baku, and the work will be all day, every day. My window for organising games would be very small, so I think it's best if I just stay out of this league.
Good luck to all!
Sorry to hear that you’re not going to be able to take part jungleboy; your presence will be sorely missed. :(
It sounds like you’ve made the right decision based on your work commitments though, and I’m very grateful that you chose to give it a miss rather than risk messing it up for everyone else by not being available for an entire month. Thanks and commiserations.
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I think I will give it a miss.
Also, I would like to sell my Carcassonne stuff.
Only kidding!! Of course I am in!
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I think I will give it a miss.
Also, I would like to sell my Carcassonne stuff.
Believe me, there were points in the last league where I would happily have done this! >:(
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Just you wait Dan!!!
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Just you wait Dan!!!
Don’t worry, I won’t be selling anything to you even if I do give it all up and become a professional Snakes and Ladders player...
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Mwa ha ha ha ha!
You won't be selling anything.
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I'm in :)
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I’m in! :green-meeple:
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sooo I!!! this time from the beginning!!! ;D
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I can't have a worse league than the last one so I will be in.
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Wow – 17 of us so far which is good going! There are still plenty of big names missing though so I’m hoping this isn’t it yet...
Apologies for the short notice, but in the interests of getting this competition up and running as soon as possible I intend to close this to new entries and lock the thread at the end of the week. So if your name isn’t in the list below and you’d like to take part in this competition then please sign up here (2 words: “I’m in”) ASAP!
danisthirty
Chooselife
berchio
MrNumbers
zone2
rfielder
Leven
Paul
jma03
Rosco
Jere
quevy
aenima
Andrew the Ambo
monwil
Hounk
Decar
PS – It is also now confirmed that this will definitely be Princess & Dragon so start practising now!
I can't have a worse league than the last one so I will be in.
You scored more points than I did in the last league! It's good to have you on board again Andrew :)
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Add one more, please - monwil would like to participate.
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I'm in, too.
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aye!
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I'm in!
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Has the competition started yet?????
:)
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Has the competition started yet?????
:)
No, not yet.
I had a test game with Rosco yesterday and we had some software problems.
Rosco has informed farin to check the mistakes and also why the chat in the version 3.2 doesn't work correctly.
When we start this league around the 15th of May - then I will be in.
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When we start this league around the 15th of May - then I will be in.
kettle is getting in??? Wow! How can anyone then not be in!! ...but...I will definitely feel bad blocking and trapping kettle...
I am WAY IN! and with a vengeance...at least until I start losing horribly :o
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We have not heard from Babygamer yet. Perhaps a PM?
I know I missed the first competition, because I was too busy to check in regularly. Would be a shame to see that happen to anyone else.
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We have not heard from Babygamer yet. Perhaps a PM?
I know I missed the first competition, because I was too busy to check in regularly. Would be a shame to see that happen to anyone else.
She has already been messaged, hopefully we won’t leave anybody who wants to play and is able to do so behind this time...
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I'm in! Hopefully it's not late yet.
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Princess and dragon¡¡
I will have to practice a lot , because I do not play with that expansion.
but I will go all out
jejejeje
:D
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Before we start the new league - did you make some test games for learning the expansion "Princess&Dragon"? Also did you test the version from JCloisterZone 3.2 and 3.1.1?
My test game with version 3.2 - was not running good. The chat in JCZ 3.2 is not stable - sometimes it is only a white page and then the chat is again there and the next moment it is gone again the whole game.
test game with JCZ 3.2:
And I had problems with the move of the fairy - sometimes the my order to move the fairy didn't work - only after I gave the same order 2 or more times.
But for me was it the first time that I have played with an expansion. I have to learn how the software works.
And after a placement of a tile - the programm placed a meeple without my order on a wrong place. I didn't see any placement - I was wondering why the other player was placing his tile and follower - and then I saw the not approved placement of my follower.
I have following question:
Do we play this new league with the version 3.2 or do we play with version 3.1.1?
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Before we start the new league - did you make some test games for learning the expansion "Princess&Dragon"? Also did you test the version from JCloisterZone 3.2 and 3.1.1?
Kettlefish - I have played several games with P&D, both against the AI and against my partner. All were with 3.2.0.
The only issue I found has been described in another discussion this afternoon, dealing with portals.
I have had a couple of instances where my mouse clicked twice, when I thought I had clicked once. Result was placing a meeple where I did not want it. I know it was the mouse, because sometimes right clicking to rotate a tile causes two rotations, not one. Unless there is an issue with how JCZ reads the mouse clicks.
I don't use the chat, so no idea if that works well or not.
And I had problems with the move of the fairy - sometimes the my order to move the fairy didn't work - only after I gave the same order 2 or more times.
That never happened to me.
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Although I can’t say I’ve encountered (m)any bugs myself, it doesn’t feel like confidence in JCZ’s implementation of The Princess & The Dragon is especially high at the moment, and it seems there have been intermittent problems with the online server since version 3.2.0 was released. Whilst I’m sure that farin will continue to work as diligently as ever in getting rid of these bugs and solving any server problems, he has a busy life and it wouldn’t be fair to expect him to drop everything else in order to ensure that our tournament can go ahead in the very near future.
With this in mind, I’d like to propose switching the focus of this league from Princess & Dragon to Abbey & Mayor since this has always been very stable. It does mean going against the results of the vote but if we’d known it wasn’t going to be plain sailing with P & D from the outset then I wouldn’t have submitted it as an option in the first place.
Hopefully this doesn’t seem too extreme. I don’t intend to postpone a Princess & Dragon league indefinitely but just until everyone’s satisfied that it is working properly. The worst case scenario would be that we get halfway through the league before realising that we’ve seen inconsistent results with the games played so far and then we get all the “but what if...” questions and the whole thing descends into chaos with talk of rematches and workarounds. Nobody wants that.
Furthermore, I’d also suggest that we stick to JCZ 3.1.1 for the time being at least. This release isn’t supported by the online server so we will require individuals such as myself, MrNumbers, Decar and (possibly) rfielder to host all games between us. I’d rather do this than have games randomly dropping out or having to be restarted because of server problems though.
This is just a suggestion so please let me know what you think by posting below.
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I agree; I think Abbey and Mayor would be preferable given the current state of the Princess and Dragon implementation.
I have noted an issue with the Princess and Dragon that I know Farin is investigating; it can currently affect all games. I will describe it briefly the issue. It seems that from the start of the game rather than randomly drawing from the 1-101 tiles in the deck, tiles are randomly drawn from the first 1-89 meaning that some of the expansion's tiles will not have a chance of being drawn until later in the game. This only affects some of the tiles from the Dragon and Princess expansion which are stored in memory slightly differently to other expansions. Farin is currently checking this issue so it may transpire to not be a problem.
Some issues could be avoided assuming that a player didn't wish to take advantage of them, but the issue I described affects every game and affects how tiles are randomly drawn from the deck. Although it is fair, in my opinion is a significant alteration to the game's intended play.
I think we should at least wait to confirm this issue with Farin, before we decided or start playing the league. If this takes too long and we agree that playing another expansion for the time being, such as Abbey and Mayor, and revisit Dragon and Princess when JCZ has had chance to improve.
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I agree - if players are encountering issues with the Dragon expansion, then Abbey and Mayor is a good alternative.
Just means we play with the Dragon later rather than sooner. The important thing is - we keep playing!
If we are rolling back, I will have to find a copy of 3.1.1, since I have removed it and did not keep a copy of the download.
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Thanks for your comments guys.
Robert, the previous version of JCloisterZone is still available to download here: http://jcloisterzone.com/builds/JCloisterZone-3.1.1.zip
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Although we do not know which tournament will be contested, I have decided to enter as a prize for the winner of a set of seven abbots wood, those of this topic.
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1281.msg22779#msg22779 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1281.msg22779#msg22779)
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This is very generouse and nice of you. :(y) Not, that I would expect a chance to win, but thank you!
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It seems that from the start of the game rather than randomly drawing from the 1-101 tiles in the deck, tiles are randomly drawn from the first 1-89 meaning that some of the expansion's tiles will not have a chance of being drawn until later in the game. This only affects some of the tiles from the Dragon and Princess expansion which are stored in memory slightly differently to other expansions. Farin is currently checking this issue so it may transpire to not be a problem.
I suppose these are 12 tiles with the Dragon? They can enter the game only after volcano shows up. It must be the correct behavior of JCZ.
P.S. And, for the record, I am up for either decision about next League's expansion.
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I've just noticed another error when playing Princess & Dragon in JCZ: it uses the outdated fairy scoring rules. That is, a player can score points even if his/her follower isn't standing NEXT TO the fairy but is only on the same tile as the fairy. I think this should also be fixed before we can start a P&D expansion league.
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Leven, that IS the correct rule isn't it?
I will play whatever
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Leven, that IS the correct rule isn't it?
I will play whatever
According to CAR, only the followers standing next to the fairy should get points. CAR says this is the current HiG rule, so I would accept this one as correct (and not the old ruling which is implemented in JCZ).
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But surely any meeple on the same tile is next to the fairy? The tiles are not that big.
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But surely any meeple on the same tile is next to the fairy?
No, they aren't.
Quote from CAR:
Only one follower can be "next to" (or connected to) a fairy. Thus, only one follower will receive points from the fairy ... Even if another follower is placed in the same feature on the same tile (as with the Flying Machines), this would not be considered "next to" the fairy.
An interesting consequence of this rule is that a player may move the fairy within the same tile, next to another follower.
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But surely any meeple on the same tile is next to the fairy? The tiles are not that big.
No matter the merit or outcome of the argument, I just love this quote. :(y) So far, this is my favorite quote of the year!! Thanks for being cool Rosco! O0
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It seems that the RGG rules only care about whether the fairy is on the tile where you have a follower in a scoring feature, even though your follower(s) is/are not the majority and consequently not scoring.
I personally prefer this version to the ZMG rules which specifically requires the fairy to award one follower. If the fairy only awards the one next to it, why would it protect others in the same tile when the dragon is around. Anyway, this doesn't make a sound argument...
We have been assuming the RGG rule as our house rule, if not official. The only circumstance I can imagine where the ZMG has to be cited to resolve an issue is: my opponent use the flier or portal to land a follower in the same tile and feature where I have follower and I finish that feature right away.
In addition, I think the Carcassonne in iOS uses the RGG rule. Correct me if I'm dreaming about this. ;)
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If the fairy only awards the one next to it, why would it protect others in the same tile when the dragon is around. Anyway, this doesn't make a sound argument...
Because the dragon fears the fairy. It will not enter the tile, where the fairy is.
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Now - it is enough talk about the rules for the Dragon or the Fairy.
As danisthirty said - this great expansion doesn't run fine at JCloisterZone.
It makes not sense to play an online league when the software doesn't work correctly.
That means the next league is not the Princess&Dragon.
This new league #3 will start with an expansion which runs better than Princess&Dragon.
League #3 - Abbey&Mayor
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The participants for the expansion league #3 -Abbey&Mayor:
1. danisthirty
2. Chooselife
3. berchio
4. MrNumbers
5. zone2
6. rfielder
7. Leven
8. Paul
9. jma03
10. Rosco
11. Jéré
12. quevy
13. aenima
14. AndrewTheAmbo
15. monwil
16. Hounk
17. Decar
18. B1nder
19. Carcking
20. ny1050220
21. ? kettlefish ? - I am not sure - I'd like to play with Princess&Dragon...
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If we are 21 participants - then it is possible to play again in 3 groups - each group with 7 players. That could be again groups A-C.
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I take it from the fact that most recent comments here have been about fairies that generally people are happy to play with Abbey & Mayor instead of Princess & Dragon? With this in mind, and since it seems that everyone who’s going to has signed up already, my plan is to get the league started from the beginning of next week (18th May) as I won’t be around at all this weekend to oversee things or host for anyone.
I will define 3 groups of 7 (21 players) or 4 groups of 5 (20 players) depending on whether kettlefish intends to play, and post the groups on Sunday evening along with the rules and tournament summary for anyone who hasn’t taken part before. Basically though, it will run in exactly the same way as the Inns & Cathedrals league in terms of 2 points for a win, 1 point for a draw and then final group membership determined by initial group ranking.
So, not long to go now. Watch this space! :)
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What about 2 groups of 10?
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Logistically, it's better to play more rounds of less players - maybe if we keep the doors open for a little longer 6 groups of 4 (or 4 groups of 6) would be nice. ???
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We will have 3 group - each group with 7 players = total players 21.
Today is the last day to play some test games (weekly online games) before the new league starts.
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I think this time it would be good for each group - that each group are mixed together with participants outside of Europe.
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My main interest will be to set out groups that are evenly matched in terms of ability so that everyone has an equal chance to do well. This can be a bit hit and miss, but the ELO ratings that Jere has been calculating will be very helpful. New participants will be distributed between the groups randomly (at the moment I think there are three new players so it will be one per group)...
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In the IC league the group B was around a month earlier finished than the groups A and C, because in group B were only participants from Europe. I think all groups need at least one or two participants from other Continents.
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In the IC league the group B was around a month earlier finished than the groups A and C, because in group B were only participants from Europe. I think all groups need at least one or two participants from other Continents.
Yes but this was unintentional. There are only 4 (I think) players from outside of Europe so it isn't inconceivable that the same thing could happen again. I don't see the benefit in spreading them around for the sake of it.
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Here is the excel table of participants:
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Here is the excel table of participants:
Thanks kettlefish. I was hoping to include locations in the groups too, but my master list of this is on my computer at work so this will be helpful to refer back to :(y)
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So I have created a possible list for the groups A-C. The new participants have not yet sorted in a group.
In the IC-league #2 - there were the groups A-C each group with 7 participants. In the new AM-league #3 are from the other league 6 participants from the IC-league groups A-C. I put 4 participant in the other groups each group 2 participants.
example: 6 from IC-league group A are now in AM-league group: A 2 - B 2 - C 2.
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We're live! (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1764) 8) :(y)