Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => General => Topic started by: Leven on January 22, 2018, 02:59:20 AM
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Do you know if there are any differences between the various editions of the (old-style) 6th expansion (Count, King & Robber) regarding the colour shades on the tiles? My copy has significantly darker colours, both the fields and the cities have much more saturation than the tiles of the basegame (and other big expansions).
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I have not heard of this, but based on your experience there must have been some variation. My Expansion 6 tiles are pretty consistent with my other Exp 3 through 9 tiles. My original base game and expansions 1 & 2 are darker (what I now call "medium green"), since they are all pre-2004. (I still prefer that original 2000-2003 grass. Nothing since then has looked as good.)
Do your Exp 6 tiles look like my original base game? Or are they more like the monasteries & cathedrals?
Here is a collage of my base & expansion tile scans for reference.
(https://s20.postimg.cc/58i0k64il/Grass_Color_Comparison.png)
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My Zman Count, King, and Robber matches my base game perfectly. My Bridges, Castles, and Bazaar's are a bit lighter.
The Cult tiles from CKR are lighter than the ones that came in the Spielbox promo. All of the above are lighter than the German monasteries, so I have at least 4 shades of old art green.
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For whatever it's worth, I mentally separate my tiles into three printing variations of lightness/saturation, which for simplicity I call Medium, Light, and Dark. Things are probably more complex than that, really, since the "light" tiles seem to have more yellow in them. But anyway, below is how the printing history looks to me based on the tiles I've gathered between 2000/2001 and 2017.
(https://s20.postimg.cc/9qyk0gkyl/Grass_Categories3-800.png)
"Medium": In the early years, everything looked nice and consistent up through about 2004.
- 2000 — Carcassonne
- 2001 — The River
- 2002 — Inns & Cathedrals
- 2003 — Traders & Builders
- 2003 — King & Scout / King & Robber Baron
- 2004 — The Count of Carcassonne
- 2004 — The Cathars (presumed; online images seem to confirm this, but I do not own these tiles)
"Light": Around 2005, things took a turn for the lighter and yellower, and this seems to be the "final intended standard" for classic Carcassonne. Subsequent printings of the earlier sets listed above would use the lighter/yellower style, along with new sets. (EDIT: I had thought all the Big Boxes were like this, too, but others have mentioned that Big Box 4 was darker.)
- 2005 — The Princess & the Dragon
- 2005 — The River II
- 2006 — The Tower
- 2006 — The Mini Expansion (a.k.a. Games Quarterly #11)
- 2007 — Abbey & Mayor
- 2008 — Count, King & Robber / The Cult Site / The Shrine (but see below)
- 2008 — Cult, Siege & Creativity
- 2008 — Catapult
- 2009 — The Tunnel
- 2009 — Wheel of Fortune
- 2010 — Bridges, Castles, and Bazaars (presumed; I don't own the standalone game)
- 2010 — The Crop Circles (I) (presumed; I don't own this)
- 2011 — The School
- 2011 — The Festival (version packed with the Jubilee edition; see Cundco version below)
- 2012 — The Flying Machines, The Messengers, The Ferries, The Gold Mines, Mage and Witch, The Robbers, The Crop Circles (II)
- 2013 — Wind Roses II (Spielbox)
- 2013 — The Besiegers
- 2014 — Hills & Sheep
- 2014 — Halflings I (Spielbox), Halflings II (Cundco)
- 2014 — Darmstadt (presumed; I don't own this)
- 2014 — Carcassonne Starttableau (The City of Carcassonne as a single piece)
"Dark": Then, for some inexplicable reason, tiles went dark again, and this time even darker than the original base game. There's a bit of overlap here in 2013/2014; I assume that is because things are not always released in the order they were printed, but there could be other reasons.
- 2013? — The Festival (Cundco standalone version; see Jubilee-edition version above)
- 2014 — German Monasteries
- 2014 — Dutch & Belgian Monasteries
- 2014 — Russian Promos I
- 2016 — The Labyrinth (ironically, the C-II labyrinth is a much better match to the "light" C-I standard)
- 2016 — German Cathedrals
- 2016 — Russian Promos II
Then there are the anachronisms: tiles whose coloration does not match the period of time in which they were released.
- 2008 — Count, King & Robber / The Cult Site / The Shrine — based on Leven's report (and my own shaky memory), some of these were too dark for the "light" period
- 2010 — The Plague — best I can tell, these Spielbox tiles were the first "dark" tiles, way back in 2010
- 2011 — The Festival — I have not scanned these for a real comparison, but they seem "medium" to me
- 2012 — Wind Roses I (Cundco) — "medium" in the "light" period, and markedly different from the Spielbox version
- 2012 — Big Box 4 — reportedly darker than all the other Big Boxes
- 2015 — German Castles — lighter than the other promos from this period, and a perfect match to my "medium" 2000/2001 base game tiles
I welcome all feedback and additions/corrections to this list.
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Here's a photo illustrating the colour difference.
I hope it's apparent that the tiles from CK&R are darker and much more saturated. In my collection this is the only (old artwork) big expansion with remarkable colour issue, so that's why I thought that there might be other editions with proper colours.
BTW, my copy is from 2011. (According to BGG (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/33458/carcassonne-expansion-6-count-king-robber/versions), it's the German 2nd edition.)
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"Count, King & Robber" was the very first expansion I separately bought, and I was a bit surprised, and not very pleased, at first glance, that the tiles were much lighter then the ones, I owned before. But that's because I started my Carcassonne with Big Box 5, which has a tone more suitable to the Plaque tiles (and probably depicted German Cathedrals?) then anything else. So I did not noticed CK&R to be significant darker then other expansion, but this might be also, because the Base Game (and I&C, T&B, Minis) will always stand out.
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Honestly I would be very happy if my tiles looked as consistent as yours do. My patchwork has at least 4 different grasses (I think I see 5 or 6)...
(https://s20.postimg.cc/a4cx3most/color_differences_400.png)
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My garden has 5 shades of grass in it :(y)
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"Count, King & Robber" was the very first expansion I separately bought, and I was a bit surprised, and not very pleased, at first glance, that the tiles were much lighter then the ones, I owned before. But that's because I started my Carcassonne with Big Box 5, which has a tone more suitable to the Plaque tiles (and probably depicted German Cathedrals?) then anything else. So I did not noticed CK&R to be significant darker then other expansion, but this might be also, because the Base Game (and I&C, T&B, Minis) will always stand out.
I have the Wheel of Fortune and River III tiles from the Big Box 5, and they don't seem to be that dark.
Hounk, may I ask you which edition of the 6th expansion do you own? When did you buy it?
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"Count, King & Robber" was the very first expansion I separately bought, and I was a bit surprised, and not very pleased, at first glance, that the tiles were much lighter then the ones, I owned before. But that's because I started my Carcassonne with Big Box 5, which has a tone more suitable to the Plaque tiles (and probably depicted German Cathedrals?) then anything else. So I did not noticed CK&R to be significant darker then other expansion, but this might be also, because the Base Game (and I&C, T&B, Minis) will always stand out.
I have the Wheel of Fortune and River III tiles from the Big Box 5, and they don't seem to be that dark.
Hounk, may I ask you which edition of the 6th expansion do you own? When did you buy it?
He meant Big Box 4.
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Yes, I did. (And it was really a typo, not mixing things up.)
I bought my C,K&R about end of year 2014/15 or 2015/16, but I think the purpose, why it seems so light is, that BB4 is really dark. (Also the tiles are not as thick, sadly, because otherwise it was a great "starter pack".)
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Let me disagree slightly 'Just a Bill'. I have the 2000's first edition of HiG and it was dark. Then they took it medium as you say. It is true that the color "light" has been yellowing with the reissues and the big boxes but that is another issue ... Focusing on the theme of dark color, if we add to the basic dark of 2000 the minis that have that color dark we can appreciate that match perfectly.
In the image I have added the typical dark, corn circles I, plague, labyrinth, monasteries, etc... You can see the results... ^-^
(https://i.imgur.com/UyXU1gX.jpg?)
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I don't think I'm understanding exactly what we are disagreeing about, but I'm happy for you that the tiles you're showing here seem pretty consistent.
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"Dark": The first edition of Carcassonne by HiG in 2000 was dark. Later he was reissued in medium in the following editions of the following year 2001. It was not until spielbox took out the almanac of HiG in which they put the first dark expansion since 2000, the cult. Subsequently they have been taking out mini dark expansions like the plague and it was not until the last publications in C1 that they were mini expansions that did it again in dark color. Maybe to close the circle as it started with C1? Maybe.
- 2000 — Carcassonne FIRST HiG EDITION
- 2008 — The Cult
- 2010 — The Plague
- 2010 — Crop Circles I
- 2012 — Wind Roses I
- 2014 — German Monasteries
- 2014 — Dutch & Belgian Monasteries
- 2015 — German Castles
- 2016 — The Labyrinth
- 2016 — German Cathedrals
This is my addition to your dark list. (russian minis not include because not HiG published)
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I have all of the expansions, although they are not with me at the moment. Darmstadt is somewhat strange in all respects: weird and unsuitable theme, blue and large watermark, and unusually greenish grass, possibly caused by the large blue fleur-de-lis. Cathars is also unusual in that it has a higher yellow tinting than other tiles. I think the original The Festival suffered from this too (possibly because of the yellow features on the tiles and the lower quality). Both Darmstadt and Cathars stand out when placed on a field of default medium-light tiles, but Darmstadt fits fairly well with darker tile sets, which mostly suffer from a darker green with a hint of blue in the grass.
For the record, Rio Grande addressed this problem several years ago (as have other publishers). Basically, color-matching isn't as easy as it seems: despite using the same computer template for making tiles, ink colors can change relatively easily if the hardboard stock is of a slightly different composition, if the printing ink is slightly off, or if they use a different printer than usual, all of which are often the case with promos and limited runs. And limited runs don't always have the same care given to them as full print runs, where the printers may take the time to ensure the colors are correct. The differences in colors in the Carcassonne first generation tiles are not intentional and never have been—they are 100% printing inconsistencies.
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I have all of the expansions, although they are not with me at the moment. Darmstadt is somewhat strange in all respects: weird and unsuitable theme, blue and large watermark, and unusually greenish grass, possibly caused by the large blue fleur-de-lis. Cathars is also unusual in that it has a higher yellow tinting than other tiles. I think the original The Festival suffered from this too (possibly because of the yellow features on the tiles and the lower quality). Both Darmstadt and Cathars stand out when placed on a field of default medium-light tiles, but Darmstadt fits fairly well with darker tile sets, which mostly suffer from a darker green with a hint of blue in the grass.
For the record, Rio Grande addressed this problem several years ago (as have other publishers). Basically, color-matching isn't as easy as it seems: despite using the same computer template for making tiles, ink colors can change relatively easily if the hardboard stock is of a slightly different composition, if the printing ink is slightly off, or if they use a different printer than usual, all of which are often the case with promos and limited runs. And limited runs don't always have the same care given to them as full print runs, where the printers may take the time to ensure the colors are correct. The differences in colors in the Carcassonne first generation tiles are not intentional and never have been—they are 100% printing inconsistencies.
Absolutely right. Nevertheless I think it is interesting to consider that if you have a copy of the basic dark you can homogenize the dark color of all the expansions that are. Surely as you say they are bad management in printing and ink. It is a funny coicidence that the first game and the last C1 expansion is dark too hehe. Darmstadt and cathars have a peculiar color that is not exact as the dark range or as the light or medium, true. It is also true that Darmstadt is the worst mini expansion by far and that it was purely for the purpose of earning money before the quality of the expansion. It is the black sheep of the mini expansions as the catapult is for the big expansions.