Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: Dungeonmasterjoe on August 30, 2018, 11:02:58 PM
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The Princess & the Dragon rules (ZMG 2016) now say the Dragon moves on step 1b.
Placing a meeple happens on step 2.
Does the dragon now move BEFORE you place a meeple?
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This has been raised with HiG - I'm not aware if it was a deliberate change or accidental.
It also affects fairy placement, which is very important when placing a tile!
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noooo my god! it must be necessarily a z-man error
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Hmm That's indeed a game changer, maybe check up the german version of the rules
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The german rules are no different.
This isnt an issue created by Zman.
HiG chnaged the rules and hence why the question wqs submitted to them.
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So, another big difference between old and new edition...
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Or a big accident. It's not clear.
It may be the section simoly needs a renumber. Numbering sections is a new approach in Carcassonne. But they should be numbering sections in relation to every other expansion. It's in principle a massive improvement. But prone to errors like this.
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Or a big accident. It's not clear.
It may be the section simoly needs a renumber. Numbering sections is a new approach in Carcassonne. But they should be numbering sections in relation to every other expansion. It's in principle a massive improvement. But prone to errors like this.
+1 to this. Numbering turn elements should help to make things clear and give us something to reference, but all expansions would need to be considered in their numbering and I don't know if they'd ever do this given their "play this expansion with other expansions at your own risk" line.
I hope this is an accident as I think the dragon works well as it is, and it makes sense for any meeples to be deployed before the dragon has a chance to eat them.
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I hope this is an accident as I think the dragon works well as it is, and it makes sense for any meeples to be deployed before the dragon has a chance to eat them.
Me too...
Anyway... the Car has the "Order of Play" numerad. I find it very well made and I made the Italian one starting from this and triyng to update it with the new expansions... it would be great if HIG will make something like that like "the dragon menu"
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So... I played a few games with (1b)the Dragon raging BEFORE you (2)Place a meeple/(move the fairy), and I have to say: at least in a 2 player game it makes the dragon more dangerous (and in my opinion, more fun). Otherwise, it's really just a 50/50 you'll draw a dragon rage tile, move the fairy, and thus avoid the dragon (for the most part). Only tried it once in a 3-player game, so I can't say for sure if this scales up OK with 3 to 6 players, but for a 2 player game, I'd surely recommend it (at least as a house rule).
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i tend to agree, which is why I think it was a deliberate choice by Hans im Gluck. but I doubt the die hard fans would like to see such a change. You do lose a couple of sneaky tile placement options, but is it a fairer and more risky experience?
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I think so. Now (in V2) he who moves the fairy last receives the fairy protection vs (V1) he who draws the Dragon Rage tile receives the fairy protection (for he'll almost always move the fairy).
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Any official reply yet?
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HiG usually work on an annual cycle rather than a weekly one.
I'd be surprised to see any answers before 2019.
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Thank-you.
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HiG usually work on an annual cycle rather than a weekly one.
I'd be surprised to see any answers before 2019.
Annual cycle for what, customer support!?
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Until the community is given a short time to ask questions about the state of the game and other important rule clarifications.
It seems in recent years that HiG prefer to only focus on their major expansions and allow mini expansions to only interact with the base game. They are a small time and needs to focus on lots of projects.
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Dear all,
After contrasting the C2 P&D rules by ZMG with the ones published by HiG (German version on CarcF) and Devir (Spanish/Portuguese version on paper), it seems clear to me that the intended turn sequence when moving the dragon is as follows:
1. Placing a Tile: you place the dragon tile
2. Placing a Meeple: you place a meeple (or move the fairy) if you want to.
1b. Moving the dragon:the players move the dragon
3. Scoring a feature: you score any features completed, if any.
In separate discussion with Black Bear about the French rules and Murphy013 about the German rules, they confirmed the same.
Note: I cannot understand why HiG numbered as 1b the dragon movement phase in the first place. Shouldn't it be renamed to 2b at least? If anyone knows the rationale behind it, please let me know.
So there is no rules change here. The turn sequence is the same as in C1 by HiG and ZMG (RGG mistranslation doesn't count here ;)).
I also checked some C2 P&D reviews in French by FredTheFred and by Olaf78800 available at BGG (see following link) and they follow the turn sequence above.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/15158/carcassonne-expansion-3-princess-dragon/videos/all (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/15158/carcassonne-expansion-3-princess-dragon/videos/all)
So I think that only players using the rules by ZMG were the ones scratching their heads with this matter as shown in this topic.
Any thoughts?
Cheers!
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If you want more details:
The volcano English rules:
(1)
The Volcano (6 tiles): Volcano tiles are placed exactly like those in the base game, except you may not place a meeple on a Volcano tile. You may, however, move the fairy after placing a Volcano tile (see page 5). Place the dragon on the newly placed Volcano tile. Then it is the next player's turn.
No issue with this. I just highlighted in red the part addressing what you could do in phase 2. Placing a Meeple.
Please check the English rules:
(2E)
The Dragon (12 tiles): Dragon tiles are placed exactly like those in the base game. Unlike Volcano tiles, you are allowed to place a meeple on a Dragon tile. Then... the dragon moves!
and German rules (+translation)
(2G)
Der Drache (12 Plättchen): Sobald du ein Plättchen mit einem Drachen ziehst, legst du es wie gewohnt an und darfst einen Meeple darauf setzen. Dann wird das Spiel kurz unterbrochen: Der Drache zieht!
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The Dragon (12 tiles): As soon as you draw a tile with a dragon, you place it as usual and may place a Meeple on it. Then the game is briefly interrupted: The dragon moves!
Again I highlighted in red the part addressing what you could do in phase 2. Placing a Meeple.
IMHO the misinterpretation in English comes from reading the sentence in red in Quote (2E) as a clarification (meeples are allowed on the dragon tile) instead of as a action you execute before moving the dragon, what is crystal clear in German Quote (2G). The clarification in red in Quote (1) may contribute to this interpretation too.
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Hi,
To avoid any confusion in future my suggestion is to relabel the section from 1b to 2b.
Hopefully Asmodee will do not the same failures like zmg.
Best
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Renaming done of course! 8)