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Topics - tothederby

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1. There are two parts to awarding points for a Wheel of Fortune event
- a) acting on the instructions for the particular sector of the wheel and
- b) points for where the followers sit on the crown spaces.
For the Messengers expansion, are these 2 different and separate scoring events or only one?

2. When scoring completed features during a cycle of a turn, does the scoring of each feature count as a trigger for Messengers (a scoring event) or is it only after the last of the completed features is scored that the scoring event is finished and it triggers drawing a messages tile?

3.  Linked to 2. above, do things like the award of ringmaster points, watchtower points, points from meeples in the Leipzig quarters, count as separate scoring events for Messengers?

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Official Rules / Robber action on another player's turn
« on: March 20, 2019, 02:13:14 PM »
Sorry if this is a Carcassonne 101 question:

Robbers: when an opponent's scoring meeple or messenger moves during a turn that is not yours, can you still score (steal) points with your robber (assuming they are not rogue points)?  Or can you only score points with your robber during your turn?

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Official Rules / Deployment out of Carcassonne cathedral district
« on: March 16, 2019, 01:10:23 PM »
I had 2 questions regarding the deployment out of the city of Carcassonne:

1. Can an abbot meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to a garden? 
2. Can a meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to Baba Yaga’s hut? If yes, is this true for an abbot meeple as well as normal meeple, big meeple, ringmaster, phantom and wagon?

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Official Rules / Order of play - Castle (expansion 8) completion
« on: March 13, 2019, 04:29:34 PM »
Can a castle (of the expansion 8 variety) that was created on first placement of a tile be completed on that same turn?

Specifically, if on first tile placement you complete two features.  You choose to 'score' the first feature which is a town / small city that you choose to convert to a castle in the first pass through of Step 7 of the order of play (Resolve Completed Features).  The second completed feature is in the fief / vicinity of the new castle. Do you not need to complete the castle and score it, all in that one turn? 

I can’t find any reference in ZMG to a rule that says you need to wait until the next turn or even builder repeat turn. However, from CAR 7.4 in footnote 304 on page 98 it says: “The RGG version of the rules states that the castle scores only “when the first feature … in the vicinity of the castle is later completed” (emphasis added) – while a subsequent turn is not specifically mentioned, it seems apparent in both rule sets that a feature that is completed on the turn that the castle is built does not allow the castle to score.” 

But in CAR 7.4 on page 99 it says: “The follower in the castle always receives points for the next structure to be completed. It may not be left in play in order to receive points for a structure which might be completed later.

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How many ways can you combine the mini and major expansions with the base game?  For instance Watchtowers and the Crop Circles can be combined to form the following games: base game on its own, base game + crop circles, base game plus watchtower and base game plus watchtower plus crop circles.  Answer is 4.

So if there are 38 expansions how many games can you construct in this manner?

[I have included each of the following as an expansion: Inns & Cathedrals, Traders and Builders, The Princess and the Dragon, The Tower, Abbey and Mayor, The Catapult, Bridges, Castles & Bazaars, Hills & Sheep, Under the Big Top, The Wheel of Fortune, The Fliers, The Messengers, The Ferries, The Gold Mines, The Mage & Witch, The Robbers, The Crop Circles, The Cathars / Siege / Besiegers (counted as one expansion), The Mini-Expansion GQ11, The Tunnel, The Plague, The Halflings, The School, The Phantom, The Festival, The Little Buildings, The Wind Roses, The Special Monasteries (German, Dutch, Japanese - counted as one expansion), The German Castles, The Watchtowers, The German Cathedrals, The Labyrinths, The Markets of Leipzig, The Fruit-Bearing Trees, The Barber-Surgeons and from Expansion 6 each of (counted as separate expansions): The King, The Count / City of Carcassonne and The Cult / Shrines (counted as one expansion).

I appreciate this labelling of expansions has subjectivity but the challenge is not about the labelling, but about the number of combinations that arises.]

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Official Rules / La Porxada operation
« on: March 13, 2019, 12:19:56 PM »
I had a three questions on La Porxada:

1) Swapping meeples: what does it mean to swap meeples? does this mean swap places with each other? or does it mean to take possession of the other player's meeple in their respective current locations? or does it mean both? Swapping places may be illegal (a barn cannot be placed in a city etc.) so it would seem to point to 'taking possession' with meeples remaining in situ. 

2) Tagging meeples: How do you tag or track that a different coloured meeple now belongs to you (and one of yours belongs to the other player)? This I guess is more an issue if a normal meeple is swapped.

3) End Game Scoring: If end game bonus points are chosen, are these bonus points awarded (incomplete city scored as a complete city) in addition to scoring the incomplete features as normal?

Grateful for any answers, insights or thoughts?

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Official Rules / Messengers scoring
« on: March 13, 2019, 11:00:28 AM »
I have a simple question: if a message tile is drawn and it is the 'Add a landscape' tile, you can place the drawn landscape tile and place a meeple on it as normal.  Do you also score the tile if it completes a feature?

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Official Rules / Carcassonne Condensed Rules
« on: March 12, 2019, 04:18:35 PM »
I wanted a shortened version of CAR that would capture all the key elements of play and could be kept with the game, updated for the more recent expansions. I have unashamedly taken parts of CAR 7.4 (thank you obervet, Skull One et al) and also copied and pasted from Wikicarpedia (thank you meepledrone et al) to pull together a condensed set of rules, attached as a pdf.
 
I still have questions (highlighted in blue) and I have had to interpret in some areas (highlighted in yellow), potentially incorrectly.

I have not included Halflings, and only very lightly covered Expansion 7. The Catapult.  I have only considered the official expansions plus the promo tiles.  I have worked from New Edition rules as a starting point (so there may be variations to earlier rules).

I would value any corrections to improve the robustness of the document and iron out mistakes. I am sure there are quite a few! I am sorry the post is quite long but I hope the questions I have are interesting and helpful.

Many thanks in anticipation.


The specific questions I have (in the order they appear in the pdf) are the following:

1. Messengers: if a message tile is drawn and it is the 'Add a landscape' tile, you can place the drawn landscape tile and place a meeple on it as normal.  Do you also score the tile?
2. Robbers: when an opponent's scoring meeple or messenger moves during a turn that is not yours, can you still score points (or can you only score points during your turn)?
3. Wheel of Fortune scoring event: there are two parts to awarding points for a Wheel of Fortune event (acting on the instructions for the particular sector of the wheel and points for where the followers sit on the crown spaces). For Messengers, are these 2 different and separate scoring events or only one?
4. Spread the plague by placing a flea: I believe this cannot happen at any time during a turn, but rather it must happen any time after drawing a tile.  This is because of this sentence in the rules: "The player who drew the [plague source] tile may not place a flea token in this turn, having instead the privilege of choosing where the Outbreak will occur."
5. Likewise a bridge can only be built any time after placing a tile (the tile needs to be paced before the bridge can be placed).
6. La Porxada
6a) SWAPPING: what does it mean to swap meeples? does this mean swap places with each other? or does it mean to take possession of the other player's meeple in their respective current locations? or does it mean both? Swapping places may be illegal (a barn cannot be placed in a city etc.) so it would seem to point to 'taking possession' with meeples remaining in situ.  Any insights or thoughts?
6b) TAGGING: How do you tag or track that a different coloured meeple now belongs to you (and the other player)? This I guess is more an issue if a normal meeple is swapped.
7. Princess & the knight.  The new rules use the word 'may' not 'must': "you may remove one knight of your choice (even your own)" and I have adopted this (I note the recent thread discussion on this).  From this, I consider this princess action becomes part of the 'Move the Wood' phase 1 - there is no longer a need to insist the action is taken before making the extensive choice of other Move the Wood actions and indeed by moving it into 'Move the Wood' it extend the strategic choices of the active player.
8. Excluded features for deployment. 
8a) I have said for flier and magic portal movement, fairy placement, dragon movement, redeployment out of the City of Carcassonne and placement of special & neutral figures (except the Count to Carcassonne), then meeples and figures cannot be deployed to the City of Carcassone, City of Leipzig, Wheel of Fortune crown spaces and expansion 8 castles.  Is this correct?
8b) Some further details are shown in the table of the attached pdf on page 8.  Are the assertions made in the table correct?
9. Completed field: there is a reference in the rules for shepherds that says: "Exception: If any player completes a field with shepherds and sheep by fully surrounding it by roads and cities, immediately resolve the Guide the flock to the stable action for that field."  Does this mean that a field can be completed before the end of the game?  And if so, does it mean it can be (should be) scored (through the act of completion & needing to resolve a completed feature) before the end of the game?
10. Expansion 8 castle completion: can an expansion 8 castle that was created on first placement of a tile be completed on a builder repeat turn?  Or do you have to wait until a brand new turn before completing it?  Or could you even create it and complete it in the same turn / cycle?  I can’t find any reference in ZMG to a rule that says you need to wait until the next turn or cycle. However, from CAR 7.4 in footnote 304 it says: “The RGG version of the rules states that the castle scores only “when the first feature … in the vicinity of the castle is later completed” (emphasis added) – while a subsequent turn is not specifically mentioned, it seems apparent in both rule sets that a feature that is completed on the turn that the castle is built does not allow the castle to score.”  But in CAR 7.4 on page 99 it says: “The follower in the castle always receives points for the next structure to be completed. It may not be left in play in order to receive points for a structure which might be completed later.”  To satisfy this latter point, if on first tile placement you complete two features, the first of which you convert to a castle and the second of which then completes the castle, do you not need to complete the castle and score it, all in the one turn?
11. Scoring order of completed features: I’ve seen references to “Each player receiving points chooses the order in which features resolve.”  I’ve struggled with this.  If more than one player is receiving points from a number of different features that have completed, who decides which feature is scored first etc.?  I have assumed the order for scoring is decided only by the active player.  I hope this is correct?
12. Redeployment from City of Carcassonne: 
12a) Can an abbot meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to a garden? 
12b) Can a meeple from the cathedral district be redeployed to Baba Yaga’s hut?
13. Deployment to Leipzig.  It would be helpful to (exhaustively) define what does not break a road connection to Leipzig and what does. I have presumed small village, house, crossroads, road junction, trees or other incidental or minor feature (such as fruit trees, bazaar, bath house or festival) do not break the connection.  I have presumed cities, towers / tower foundations, lakes without a ferry connection, Bogatyr stone, Solovei Razboynik tree, acrobat spaces, circus spaces, crop circles, watch towers, shrines, abbeys, all types of monasteries, castles (German or expansion 8), German cathedrals, the city of Carcassonne, the Wheel of Fortune and the school do break the connection.  I am puzzled why the footnotes on Wikicarpedia suggest monasteries do not break the road connection – I have presumed they do.  Does this all work?
14. Watchtowers: does an expansion 8 castle qualify as a completed feature for scoring watchtowers?
15. Scoring Leipzig: If you have a meeple in the Bookbinders quarter, do you score for special monastery functioning as a monastery, abbey tile, Darmstadt church, shrine or Baba Yaga’s hut.
16. Scoring Messages: With each new expansion added, there now seems to be quite a few scoring events during each Step 7 of the order of play (Leipzig, watchtowers, ringmaster points, teacher, fairy).  Does not each one of these separately represent a scoring event for the purposes of messenger scoring?  I am sure I’m missing a vital rule element that would make sense of this for me.
17. Besieged city.  Can only one knight escape through one monastery per turn (ie. The monastery once used is exhausted as an escape route that turn)?
18. Tiles next to monasteries: A German castle tile counts as one tile in completing a monastery (and reduces the score from 9 to 8 on completion).  Is this also true if the 4x4 wheel of fortune tile is next to a monastery (reducing the completion score to 6)? Or one of the City of Carcassonne 2x3 tiles?

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