Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => General => Topic started by: DrMeeple on November 09, 2018, 02:36:36 AM
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I have found in Etsy a user that makes the basic game in wood along with the expansion of river I. It is made entirely in wood and laser engraved illustrations. Even the reverse side of the tiles. I have been looking at pictures and I find them wonderful. You have the option to varnish them later if you do not want them to have that matte tone. But without varnishing they also seem very cool to me. I would like to know if someone already has it or what you think. I'm going to place an order soon. Also on the other hand they sell a wooden box with the marker engraved on the back of the box. Surely it's where I keep the tiles once I have them. I give you some pictures to give you an idea.
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3633/QXpZL6.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/5857/vSvo5B.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/6124/aRpH4q.jpg)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/393/pYjbmc.jpg)
Here's the link of the shop:
https://www.etsy.com/es/listing/192808759/laser-corte-carcassonne-azulejo-conjunto?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=carcassonne&ref=sr_gallery-1-3
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I doubt that it is legal to make such copies of Carcassonne without agreement with HiG.
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They appear to be selling the vector files too!
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I doubt that it is legal all the accessories that are made with the logo or name of carcassonne. Including new expansions using illustrations that are copyright. Come on!! :))
I doubt that it is legal to make such copies of Carcassonne without agreement with HiG.
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Legal or not, it is good that this post was made:)
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They look similar to the ones posted about here (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=963.msg11038#msg11038).
I bought these (4 years ago) without any specific regard for licensing as it wasn't a concern for me at the time. They're nice enough as a novelty, but I've never played with them. Now that I know a little more about how licensing works I certainly wouldn't support anyone who is benefiting financially from someone else's intellectual property.
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I totally understand where you are coming from Dan, but on that basis, artists doing paintings of comic book characters or tattoos are also a no go area. And what about jewellery, badges, box inserts for storage? Clothing?
Someone taking someone else's intellectual property and selling it in the same format as the original is absolutely not ok, but using it for inspiration, providing something to enhance it, or changing it to make some cash and also promoting the original at the same time is surely ok.
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Well I'm certainly no expert on how copyright/ licensing works, but there must be a line somewhere between what is and isn't acceptable. I don't know where that is, but would suggest that any attempt to sell something that could be deemed to be replacing something that is already available through the person who created it would not be legal. Nor should it be. In this case, making a profit through a homemade copy of the Carcassonne basegame certainly does that, whereas it may be less clear-cut in some instances where something doesn't necessarily replace anything offered by the license holder.
Those are just my thoughts on it anyway. I could be wrong, but in general a consideration of these factors is often helpful before choosing whether to part with your money. O:-)
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Fair enough, although I would suggest that this is not in fact a replacement but something a fan would buy who is likely to have everything already. I would find it unlikely that someone who has never heard of Carcassonne would buy it. Legally, this is probably not allowed but these are just my thoughts on the matter.
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All the reason. ;)
I totally understand where you are coming from Dan, but on that basis, artists doing paintings of comic book characters or tattoos are also a no go area. And what about jewellery, badges, box inserts for storage? Clothing?
Someone taking someone else's intellectual property and selling it in the same format as the original is absolutely not ok, but using it for inspiration, providing something to enhance it, or changing it to make some cash and also promoting the original at the same time is surely ok.
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As I posted last week HiG own the shape of a meeple and have sent CnD notices to a couple of shops selling meeple earrings.
The wooden tiles posted have use artwork very similar to that belonging to HiG, if this is without permission or through a licence agreement, then HiG have a right to protect their assets.
HiG own the intellectual property. Arguing that someone who buys this probably already owns the basegame made of cardboard is not a legitimate defence. Tomorrow, HiG may decide to produce wooden tiles. People who have bought these wouldn't tiles would be unlikely to buy HiGs ones. Thus HiG will lose out on a number of potential sales; this damages their product. HiG have a right to defend what is theirs.
If there is no licence agreement in place, HiG also have no control over product quality. If I show this to a friend and the quality is low it may have a detrimental effect on the brand. This is why HiG protect their 'C' logo and have told quite a few retailers to stop using their iconography. It's why I can't open up a shop called MacDanoldos with a big yellow M and sell really rubbish burgers.
Again, assuming there is no agreement, this person is trying to piggy back off of the hard work of HiG and the hard work of many other licence holders around the globe.
In some ways it is similar to the Nike/Sega court case in the late 90s. Sega remade a Nike advert scene by scene to push their product and it was settled as being detrimental to the Nike brand. Worth a look as it is certainly one of the pioneering cases in copyright law that affects the computer game industry.
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But Decar- we are not talking about some mega game giants trying to profit from HIG's intellectual property, we are talking about an Etsy crafter. Yes the law is the same for all. But choose your battles. These are a nice thing. I won't buy them - not for legal reasons but because they are not THAT nice and I can't afford something like this.
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but HiG are choosing their battles, this shop doesn't have a CnD in place. HiG is a small company itself. I'd also argue that we did X because another person was doing X and you didn't or haven't tried to stop them could be grounds for a defence, assuming they could show HiG was aware of it. I don't know any examples of this though.
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Exactly! ;)
But Decar- we are not talking about some mega game giants trying to profit from HIG's intellectual property, we are talking about an Etsy crafter. Yes the law is the same for all. But choose your battles. These are a nice thing. I won't buy them - not for legal reasons but because they are not THAT nice and I can't afford something like this.
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but HiG are choosing their battles, this shop doesn't have a CnD in place. HiG is a small company itself. I'd also argue that we did X because another person was doing X and you didn't or haven't tried to stop them could be grounds for a defence, assuming they could show HiG was aware of it. I don't know any examples of this though.
Exactly! :(y)
In my view it is unacceptably to SELL such things without the Copyright agreement with HiG. Crafter could make the game for himself, he might present it to somebody, but not sell. The good example of such crafting is giant tiles-coasters, there was no problem for crafter to take the permission from HiG and sell the goods without any questions.
And it is not good to advertise illegal "Carcassonne" games on Carcassonne phorum. I'd delete the link and the photo from this topic.
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For goodness sake - this forum is not a sponsored hig site. We do not get any preferential treatment from hig , and as I remember it they have completely disregarded our points of view on various occasions. We as a community have slagged off what hig has and is doing with Carcassonne for years.
I am not saying "screw hig" - I am saying "have some perspective". If hig want to issue cease and desist notices to all these crafters who make and sell Carcassonne things then they can go right ahead. But we as a community shouldn't be policing creativity apart from choosing not to purchase an item if we want to.
I find this whole argument a bit ridiculous to be honest. Yes the wooden game is almost certainly illegal but is the seller doing it to make his/her millions? No. Do you actually care that much? I don't and Hig are big enough and clever enough to fight their own battles.
I think it is a really nice looking creation.
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I don't care about selling these wooden tiles at Etsy/E-bay etc. HiG should/may care about selling that nice but illegal version of Carcassonne because HiG is the owner of the game Copyright.
But if we understand that this version of the game is illegal how can we advertice it on the CC? CC is the community of Car fans. And I gratefull to HiG for creation Carcassone and development of the game. It is not good for Carcassonne community to help these people to use HiG's ideas for making theirs hundreds euros in illegal way. Legal way is simple - writing the letter to HiG and receiveing the approval.
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I see what you are saying but No one was advertising this. The original poster of this and various other similar things over the years is drawing our attention to something Carcassonne related in case us fans are interested. It would be different if the seller comes on here selling something illegal.
Ultimately I strongly believe consumers owe nothing to commercial sellers - they have created a product we like And we have given them our money. It is clear that retailers/manufacturers simply want to make money and that is fine. But I don't think we fans should be policing very small time sellers. If hig wants to stop them selling then they will.
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Beautiful set!
And very usable - less scratches, less attrition than on the common cardboard tiles.
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Apparently there will be a new version of these designs issued next year. The shade of wood will be lighter, or 'flubberly' and have some extra diamond shaped embellishments on selected tiles. There will be some religious cardboard to accompany as an optional expansion.
I for one prefer the new version and an esteemed member of this forum has mentioned the original version to now look a tad dated.
The six monasteries are very good likenesses of the delightful cathedral of Our Lady of the Hot Beverage and Poisson. A magnifying glass allows the famous Marc Chagall stained glass window in the shape of a meeple to be fully appreciated. Who needs de kloosters?
The first small expansion has been confirmed as The river Aude which meanders for 12 tiles.
The third expansion features a clockwork Giant Lizard which randomly takes 6 steps. Any meeples on these tiles are picked up in its mouth a spat out in the direction of the owning player.
The sixth expansion is unavailable due to the lack of fun from the plethora of associated rules. The seventh expansion has however been resurrected which is more than commensurate.
Two Russian tiles can be added to your order. I wouldn't want to push these as they are not cheap but at least the rounded corners do not tear the bin bag from which we draw the tiles.
Finally a limited edition run of 100 carrycases fashioned in the shape of the Hobbit Hole of Bilbo the Imaginative is available for £650. The trifold scoring track is exquisitely hinged so as to fit through the round aperture. 1 lucky purchaser will also find the ring of rings secreted inside. Completionist be damned.
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That is brilliant - when I started reading I thought it was a serious comment!!! Hilarious!
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With that mentality you will lose many things in life. As a collector of Carcassonne, I am interested in everything. I've been looking for one entirely of wood for some time. If HyG does not do it or someone else I would commission it to a carpentry shop to do it to me. What this person does can be done by anyone in this forum if you go to a specialized carpentry shop and you entrust it. Or if someone makes a magnetic carcassonne or we order it from a specialized store or we when go to a printer for our modified fake tiles using images that are copyrighted. Just because there is money is illegal? Sure? At the ethical level, everything would be illegal, let's not be hypocrites. Then we are all illegal or what? Open a little the mind that we are in the 21st century.
but HiG are choosing their battles, this shop doesn't have a CnD in place. HiG is a small company itself. I'd also argue that we did X because another person was doing X and you didn't or haven't tried to stop them could be grounds for a defence, assuming they could show HiG was aware of it. I don't know any examples of this though.
Exactly! :(y)
In my view it is unacceptably to SELL such things without the Copyright agreement with HiG. Crafter could make the game for himself, he might present it to somebody, but not sell. The good example of such crafting is giant tiles-coasters, there was no problem for crafter to take the permission from HiG and sell the goods without any questions.
And it is not good to advertise illegal "Carcassonne" games on Carcassonne phorum. I'd delete the link and the photo from this topic.
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Full description of the second edition now added above
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hahahahaha yes!! ;D
Full description of the second edition now added above
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That's all about!! :(y) ;)
I see what you are saying but No one was advertising this. The original poster of this and various other similar things over the years is drawing our attention to something Carcassonne related in case us fans are interested. It would be different if the seller comes on here selling something illegal.
Ultimately I strongly believe consumers owe nothing to commercial sellers - they have created a product we like And we have given them our money. It is clear that retailers/manufacturers simply want to make money and that is fine. But I don't think we fans should be policing very small time sellers. If hig wants to stop them selling then they will.
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For goodness sake - this forum is not a sponsored hig site. We do not get any preferential treatment from hig , and as I remember it they have completely disregarded our points of view on various occasions. We as a community have slagged off what hig has and is doing with Carcassonne for years.
I am not saying "screw hig" - I am saying "have some perspective". If hig want to issue cease and desist notices to all these crafters who make and sell Carcassonne things then they can go right ahead. But we as a community shouldn't be policing creativity apart from choosing not to purchase an item if we want to.
I find this whole argument a bit ridiculous to be honest. Yes the wooden game is almost certainly illegal but is the seller doing it to make his/her millions? No. Do you actually care that much? I don't and Hig are big enough and clever enough to fight their own battles.
I appreciate your frustration Rosco, and I agree with you to a large extent. I'm sure Tom will scold me for this, but in my opinion HiG have ignored a lot of great opportunities that we've tried to make for them to partner with us and accomplish some cool things that would have really helped to grow the Carcassonne community and ultimately generated more interest in Carcassonne (and therefore money) around the world. Maybe they have their reasons for this, maybe they don't, but they're the ones who invest the money so it's up to them to make the decisions even if they seem impossible to justify for people like you and me.
And although I want to do what I can to support Carcassonne, I'm not a huge fan of our unofficial, unincentivised duty to report things like this to HiG when they've never really done anything with any information we've provided them with in the past either. Again, it's their decision and I'm sure they have to consider all manner of factors that people like me are too dumb to appreciate. But if they don't appear to care about stuff like this and aren't even following up to ask people to stop, why should we care either? I get that too.
At the end of the day though, if there's one thing I don't support it's people making money from other people's work and ideas. KJW designed Carcassonne and HiG own it. Maybe these wooden tiles are nice enough to justify the money, but do I want to give my money to someone who had nothing to do with the creation of the game that he's now selling? For the same reason I stopped playing Carcassonne via Facebook after over 1000 games when I realised that it was an unlicensed rip-off that has since been renamed. And it's why I continue to report eBay sellers who attempt to sell homemade Carcassonne tiles based on expansions that are/ were freely available through this site or others.
While I don't necessarily expect everyone/ anyone to agree with me on this (when has this ever happened?!), hopefully you can see the difference!
And very usable - less scratches, less attrition than on the common cardboard tiles.
I don't think this is true. The tiles are made from something akin to Balsa wood, and while the quality of the images burnt onto them is good, I would say they are actually less durable than the cardboard ones.