Author Topic: Doubt about the bazaar.  (Read 2269 times)

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Doubt about the bazaar.
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2021, 09:26:41 AM »
Ha ha ha! Surprise! Another ambiguous spot in the rules...

I tried to do some research back in the day for WICA. Check section "Player sequence while auctioning tiles" here:
https://wikicarpedia.com/index.php/Talk:Bridges,_Castles_and_Bazaars

I couldn't find a clarification on this yet, but my understanding favors Option #2 so the auctions follow the player sequence clockwise but skipping those who already purchased a tile. It seems quite fair to me.

Option #1 seems a minstranslation by ZMG. It is also fair, but does not match the rules by HiG.

And Option #3, the one you follow can be abused easily. If you (re)start the auctions with the player next to the active player, this guy could take advantage of his role as recurring auctioneer: he may auction all the tiles he is not interested in first and then get the one he wants for free in the end.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline Vital Pluymers

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Re: Doubt about the bazaar.
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2021, 10:32:03 AM »
I think the rules have always been like option 3...

I found this on BGG:

Quote
Charlie Beard@patriotsfever86
I having a bit of trouble understanding all the nuances of how bazaars work. Could someone explain them in detail with examples? Maybe include how the rules effect two-player games. And maybe a little strategy. I'd appreciate it. Thanks.
[\quote]

Quote
When you play a tile with a bazaar, it is the same as any other tile. Place it, potentially place a meeple, potentially score it. Then the game is interrupted.

The person who placed the tile, we'll call him Andy, draws as many new tiles as there are players in the game. So if there are 4 players, Andy will draw 4 tiles and place them face-up so everyone can see them.

The player to Andy's left, we'll call him Brian, starts as the first auctioneer. Brian will select one of the 4 tiles and put it up for auction. He can bid anything but let's say he starts it off at 0. Everyone else, in clockwise order around the table gets once chance to bid. Christie, to Brian's left, passes. Dawn, on her left bids 2 points. Back now to Andy who bids 3 points.

At this point, Brian has 2 options. He can buy the tile for the highest price (3 points in this case) and gives those 3 points to Andy (since he was the high bidder) or he can allow Andy to have it for 3 points in which case Andy gives Brian the 3 points (either way, one is deducting 3 points and the other is adding them). We will say Brian let Andy had it for 3 points. there are now 3 tiles left. Since Andy bought a tile, he sits out the rest of the auctions for this round.

Brian, having not won a tile, starts the 2nd auction. He again selects a tile and places a bid. He again bids 0. Again, Christie passes and Dawn decides to bid only 1 point. Brian decides to keep this one and deducts 1 point from his score and Dawn adds 1 point. There are now 2 remaining tiles and Brian also must sit out with Andy.

Now Christie is the next player in order who has not purchased a tile. She must select one of the two remaining tiles. Since she can't pass as the auctioneer, she also bids 0 points. Dawn decides she doesn't want it either so passes. Christie wins it for 0 points.

Dawn is now the last player to have not won a tile and there is only 1 tile left. She takes the final tile for 0 points. All players now have a tile.

Starting to the left of the person who played the original Bazaar tile (Andy started it so Brian is to his left), will now play a normal round. So Brian places his tile, places a meeple, scores if possible. Then Christie places her tiles, meeples, scores. Then Dawn places her tile, meeples scores. Finally Andy places his tile, meeples and scores. The bazaar turn is now over and play resumes as normal with Brian starting the next round as normal.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Doubt about the bazaar.
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2021, 12:04:55 PM »
Yep... This is the same discussion on BGG I saw when looking for clarifications... It matches the interpretation of the RGG rules.

The name of the game is find the seven differences  ;)
* HiG  do not clearly state who is the reference player to decide who in the next player (C1 or C2)
* RGG add a sentence in parenthesis that can be intrepreted as the auctioneer may reset for each auction (C1)
* ZMG add a reference to the previous buyer (C1 and C2)



C1 - HiG rules
Quote
Nun ist der Nächste an der Reihe, der während dieses Basares noch keine Karte bekommen hat. Er sucht sich wieder eine Karte aus und bietet darauf. Wer schon eine Karte bekommen hat, darf nicht mehr mitbieten. Die letzte Karte bekommt derjenige, der bisher noch keine Karte bekommen hatte, umsonst.

C1 - HiG rules (automatic translation)
Quote
Now it is the turn of the next player who has not yet received a tile during this bazaar. He again chooses a tile and bids on it. Anyone who has already received a tile may not bid on it. The last tile is given for free to the person who has not yet received a tile.

C1 - RGG rules
Quote
Now, the next player in clockwise order, who has not yet bought a tile at this bazaar takes his turn to choose a tile to auction (it could be the same player if he did not buy the tile he chose). During the auction, players who have already bought a tile at this bazaar may not bid. The last player takes the last tile for no cost.

C1 - ZMG rules
Quote
Once a player has acquired a tile in a bazaar round, they are out of the round and may make no further bids. Among the players who have not yet acquired a tile, the next player clockwise from the previous buyer chooses a tile for the next auction. When only one tile remains, it is given at no cost to the only player who has not yet acquired a tile. A player may not bid more points than he has. If a bazaar tile is drawn and all players have 0 points, play this bazaar round according to the variant rules.



C2 - HiG Rules
Quote
Wer schon ein Plättchen bekommen hat, darf nicht mehr an der Versteigerung teilnehmen. Nun ist im Uhrzeigersinn der Nächste an der Reihe, der noch kein Plättchen bekommen hat. Er sucht sich ein Plättchen aus und bietet darauf usw. Das letzte Plättchen nimmt sich der letzte verbliebene Spieler umsonst. Nun hat jeder Spieler 1 Plättchen vor sich.

C2 - HiG rules (automatic translation)
Quote
Anyone who has already received a tile may no longer participate in the auction. Now it is the turn of the next person in clockwise order who has not yet received a tile. He chooses a tile and bids on it, and so on. The last remaining player takes the last tile for free. Now each player has 1 tile in front of him.

C2 - ZMG rules
Quote
Once a player has taken a tile during a bazaar auction, he or she is out of the round and cannot bid any more. Among the players who have not yet taken a tile this round, the next player clockwise from the previous buyer choses which tile will be
auctioned next, and a new auction begins. This continues until only one tile remains, and the player still without a tile takes it for free.



As a final note, ZMG gets creative in C2 about who places the first tile after the action:
   - In all other cases, it is the player to the left of the active player
   - But ZMG in C2 states that it is the first buyer (Is it the player to the left of the active player or the first player who bought a tile?)


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