Author Topic: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.  (Read 5861 times)

Offline Drodo

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Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« on: July 06, 2020, 10:36:32 PM »
Does the tree on this tile count as an intersection to cut the roads? Or does the road go uninterrupted behind the tree?

Not that this matters in the base game since any Meeple that touches either road is kidnapped, but it matters if played with German Cathedrals. When a Cathedral is completed and one of the roads has the Solovei Tree, do I also get points for the road tiles behind the tree? Or does it end there.



Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=4714.0

Offline MMike

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2020, 04:32:20 AM »
I would say interrupted...
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Offline DIN0

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2020, 05:10:35 AM »
I would say interrupted...
Allow me to politely disagree  :gray-meeple:
I believe the road is continuous for two reasons:

1. visual - you can actually see the road continue behind the tree in the shadow. It is hard to see, but look behind the razboynik himself - you can see part of the road. (the photo is fuzzy, you cen see it better on the actual tile) Also it's not like the road goes into the tree, it goes behind it. The tree just happens to block the view.

2. thematic - this tile is supposed to trap meeples on roads, so it should be designed to trap as many as possible. If the tile already contained an end to its road(s) it would be more likely to close sooner and shorter, therefore traping less meeples. One continuous road without built in end has more opportunities for trapping as it will remain hazardous for longer period of time.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 05:14:45 AM by tp10053 »

Offline Halfling

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2020, 05:11:37 AM »
A feature always interrupts a road.
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Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2020, 05:14:20 AM »
The translation from Russian provided by MrNumber is the following:

Nightingale the Robber tile
The tile is mixed with basic game tiles. If there are followers on roads that go through Nightingale tile (or on roads that are connected to that tile later in the game), players must move them onto that tile. Followers remain on that tile till the end of the game. In player's turn, instead of placing the follower ("move the wood" phase) player can return one follower from Nightingale tile into his supply.

These rules talk about "roads that go through the tile" not "the road that goes through the tile" so this would corroborate the visual interpretation: there are two roads ending at the tree.

Note: I double checked the Russian wording and it says "ДОРОГАХ" (roads) instead of "ДОРОГА" (road)...

You can check the original Russian text here:



КВАДРАТ "СОЛОВЕЙ-РАЗБОЙНИК" ЗАМЕШИВАЕТСЯ СО СТАНДАРТНЫМ КВАДРАТАМИ ИГРЫ «КАРКАССОН».

ЕСЛИ НА ДОРОГАХ,  ПРОХОДЯЩИХ ЧЕРЕ3 КВАДРАТ «СОЛОВЬЯ-РАЗБОЙНИКА»,  ВЫСТАВЛЕНЫ (ИЛИ ВПОСЛЕДСТВИИ  ОКАЗЫВАЮТСЯ)  ФИШКИ, ИГРОКИ ОБЯЗАНЫ ПЕРЕСТАВИТЬ ИХ НА КВАДРАТ «СОЛОВЬЯ- РАЗБОЙНИКА».
   
ФИШКИ ОСТАЮТСЯ НА КВАДРАТЕ  «СОЛОВЬЯ- РАЗБОЙНИКА» ДО КОНЦА ИГРЫ.  В СВОЙ ХОД, ВМЕСТО ВЫСТАВЛЕНИЯ ФИШКИ,  ИГРОК МОЖЕТ ВЕРНУТЬ СВОЮ ФИШКУ С КВАДРАТА «СОЛОВЬЯ- РАЗБОЙНИКА», В ЗАПАС.
Questions about rules? Check WICA: wikicarpedia.com

Offline DIN0

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2020, 05:24:25 AM »
I think this is worth discussing + I need this resolved for my secret project  O0

Meepledrone, if you have time, could you please respond to the points I have presented above?

Also regarding the wording of the rules, I interpreted it like this:
"roads that go through" feels like going through the tile =not stopping on the tile.
Also the plural "roads" could be implying roads as in roads that already exist, have meeples on them and are then connected to Solovei Razboynik (which can be multiple roads).

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2020, 06:40:49 AM »
..sigh..
Google translate suggests "passing through".  But fails to translate ЧЕРЕ3 correctly.

Does seem to make this tile a lot less interesting if it's only a single road.

Offline DIN0

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2020, 09:13:17 AM »
..sigh..
Google translate suggests "passing through".  But fails to translate ЧЕРЕ3 correctly.

Does seem to make this tile a lot less interesting if it's only a single road.
Quite the contrary, It makes it more interesting for the reasons I mentioned - you have more opportunities to use it >:D

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2020, 11:18:09 AM »
You can play with Yandex too:

https://translate.yandex.com/?lang=ru-en&text=%D0%9A%D0%92%D0%90%D0%94%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%A2%20%22%D0%A1%D0%9E%D0%9B%D0%9E%D0%92%D0%95%D0%99-%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%97%D0%91%D0%9E%D0%99%D0%9D%D0%98%D0%9A%22%20%D0%97%D0%90%D0%9C%D0%95%D0%A8%D0%98%D0%92%D0%90%D0%95%D0%A2%D0%A1%D0%AF%20%D0%A1%D0%9E%20%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%9D%D0%94%D0%90%D0%A0%D0%A2%D0%9D%D0%AB%D0%9C%20%D0%9A%D0%92%D0%90%D0%94%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%9C%D0%98%20%D0%98%D0%93%D0%A0%D0%AB%20%C2%AB%D0%9A%D0%90%D0%A0%D0%9A%D0%90%D0%A1%D0%A1%D0%9E%D0%9D%C2%BB.%0A%0A%D0%95%D0%A1%D0%9B%D0%98%20%D0%9D%D0%90%20%D0%94%D0%9E%D0%A0%D0%9E%D0%93%D0%90%D0%A5%2C%20%20%D0%9F%D0%A0%D0%9E%D0%A5%D0%9E%D0%94%D0%AF%D0%A9%D0%98%D0%A5%20%D0%A7%D0%95%D0%A0%D0%953%20%D0%9A%D0%92%D0%90%D0%94%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%A2%20%C2%AB%D0%A1%D0%9E%D0%9B%D0%9E%D0%92%D0%AC%D0%AF-%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%97%D0%91%D0%9E%D0%99%D0%9D%D0%98%D0%9A%D0%90%C2%BB%2C%20%20%D0%92%D0%AB%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%92%D0%9B%D0%95%D0%9D%D0%AB%20(%D0%98%D0%9B%D0%98%20%D0%92%D0%9F%D0%9E%D0%A1%D0%9B%D0%95%D0%94%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%92%D0%98%D0%98%20%20%D0%9E%D0%9A%D0%90%D0%97%D0%AB%D0%92%D0%90%D0%AE%D0%A2%D0%A1%D0%AF)%20%20%D0%A4%D0%98%D0%A8%D0%9A%D0%98%2C%20%D0%98%D0%93%D0%A0%D0%9E%D0%9A%D0%98%20%D0%9E%D0%91%D0%AF%D0%97%D0%90%D0%9D%D0%AB%20%D0%9F%D0%95%D0%A0%D0%95%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%92%D0%98%D0%A2%D0%AC%20%D0%98%D0%A5%20%D0%9D%D0%90%20%D0%9A%D0%92%D0%90%D0%94%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%A2%20%C2%AB%D0%A1%D0%9E%D0%9B%D0%9E%D0%92%D0%AC%D0%AF-%20%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%97%D0%91%D0%9E%D0%99%D0%9D%D0%98%D0%9A%D0%90%C2%BB.%0A%20%20%20%0A%D0%A4%D0%98%D0%A8%D0%9A%D0%98%20%D0%9E%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%AE%D0%A2%D0%A1%D0%AF%20%D0%9D%D0%90%20%D0%9A%D0%92%D0%90%D0%94%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%A2%D0%95%20%20%C2%AB%D0%A1%D0%9E%D0%9B%D0%9E%D0%92%D0%AC%D0%AF-%20%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%97%D0%91%D0%9E%D0%99%D0%9D%D0%98%D0%9A%D0%90%C2%BB%20%D0%94%D0%9E%20%D0%9A%D0%9E%D0%9D%D0%A6%D0%90%20%D0%98%D0%93%D0%A0%D0%AB.%20%20%D0%92%20%D0%A1%D0%92%D0%9E%D0%99%20%D0%A5%D0%9E%D0%94%2C%20%D0%92%D0%9C%D0%95%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%9E%20%D0%92%D0%AB%D0%A1%D0%A2%D0%90%D0%92%D0%9B%D0%95%D0%9D%D0%98%D0%AF%20%D0%A4%D0%98%D0%A8%D0%9A%D0%98%2C%20%20%D0%98%D0%93%D0%A0%D0%9E%D0%9A%20%D0%9C%D0%9E%D0%96%D0%95%D0%A2%20%D0%92%D0%95%D0%A0%D0%9D%D0%A3%D0%A2%D0%AC%20%D0%A1%D0%92%D0%9E%D0%AE%20%D0%A4%D0%98%D0%A8%D0%9A%D0%A3%20%D0%A1%20%D0%9A%D0%92%D0%90%D0%94%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%A2%D0%90%20%C2%AB%D0%A1%D0%9E%D0%9B%D0%9E%D0%92%D0%AC%D0%AF-%20%D0%A0%D0%90%D0%97%D0%91%D0%9E%D0%99%D0%9D%D0%98%D0%9A%D0%90%C2%BB%2C%20%D0%92%20%D0%97%D0%90%D0%9F%D0%90%D0%A1.

Offline Decar

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2020, 12:09:42 PM »
That is a lot clearer. Now I'm not sure if being 1 or 2 roads makes an awful lot of difference. If either end get attached to another road, the meeple are sucked into the nightingale's trap. It suggests they arent scored, so the road is mostly a benign feature. Except when it comes to scoring a watchtower or a castle or something similar... good puzzle for you there Meepledrone.

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2020, 12:34:31 PM »
Certainly! It may take time to solve but already working on it.  ;)

Offline DIN0

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2020, 06:02:47 AM »

Meepledrone, please see my two previous posts. I need to get somebody's response to the arguments and my perspective :(y).
Quote
Allow me to politely disagree  :gray-meeple:
I believe the road is continuous for two reasons:

1. visual - you can actually see the road continue behind the tree in the shadow. It is hard to see, but look behind the razboynik himself - you can see part of the road. (the photo is fuzzy, you cen see it better on the actual tile) Also it's not like the road goes into the tree, it goes behind it. The tree just happens to block the view.

2. thematic - this tile is supposed to trap meeples on roads, so it should be designed to trap as many as possible. If the tile already contained an end to its road(s) it would be more likely to close sooner and shorter, therefore traping less meeples. One continuous road without built in end has more opportunities for trapping as it will remain hazardous for longer period of time.
Quote
I think this is worth discussing + I need this resolved for my secret project  O0

Meepledrone, if you have time, could you please respond to the points I have presented above?

Also regarding the wording of the rules, I interpreted it like this:
"roads that go through" feels like going through the tile =not stopping on the tile.
Also the plural "roads" could be implying roads as in roads that already exist, have meeples on them and are then connected to Solovei Razboynik (which can be multiple roads).

Offline Meepledrone

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2020, 08:53:39 AM »

Meepledrone, please see my two previous posts. I need to get somebody's response to the arguments and my perspective :(y).
Quote
Allow me to politely disagree  :gray-meeple:
I believe the road is continuous for two reasons:

1. visual - you can actually see the road continue behind the tree in the shadow. It is hard to see, but look behind the razboynik himself - you can see part of the road. (the photo is fuzzy, you cen see it better on the actual tile) Also it's not like the road goes into the tree, it goes behind it. The tree just happens to block the view.

2. thematic - this tile is supposed to trap meeples on roads, so it should be designed to trap as many as possible. If the tile already contained an end to its road(s) it would be more likely to close sooner and shorter, therefore traping less meeples. One continuous road without built in end has more opportunities for trapping as it will remain hazardous for longer period of time.
Quote
I think this is worth discussing + I need this resolved for my secret project  O0

Meepledrone, if you have time, could you please respond to the points I have presented above?

Also regarding the wording of the rules, I interpreted it like this:
"roads that go through" feels like going through the tile =not stopping on the tile.
Also the plural "roads" could be implying roads as in roads that already exist, have meeples on them and are then connected to Solovei Razboynik (which can be multiple roads).


Hi tp10053!

I read your messages too.  ;D

Since it seems, there are arguments to back both possibilities I did the following: I asked Murphy013 to reach his contact at Hobby World, the publisher that created the Russian Promos, to solve this dilemma...

Let's cross our fingers and sit tight waiting for the answer!  ;)




Offline DIN0

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2020, 09:38:42 AM »
Hi Meepledrone,

that is great news!
I hope we shall get some response :(y)

Offline DIN0

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Re: Russian Solovei Razboynik (Tree) question.
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2020, 09:55:46 AM »
While we are waiting for the answer, I found this old russian cartoon depicting the folktale this tile is based upon. In the original tale, Solovei Razboynik is a bird-like man that kills strangers with his powerful whistles.  :o
WARNING :red-meeple:: while the whistles won't kill you, they sure might pop your eardrums when using headphones, so be aware!



interesting part starts at 5:03


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