Carcassonne Central
Off Topic => Other Games => Topic started by: Paul on July 03, 2015, 02:45:36 PM
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This week's Carcassonne surfing brought me this interesting new (2015 release) board game.
It's a tile laying game much like Carcassonne but, as the game title suggest, it relates to cacao beans. It seems to have similarities to our beloved game in terms of fields, cities(villages) etc according to the article linked below. It mentioned of tile size similarity to Carc tiles, but not exact size match confirmation.
Link to an article for the game: http://dailyworkerplacement.com/2015/04/20/cacao-chocolatey-carcassonne/ (http://dailyworkerplacement.com/2015/04/20/cacao-chocolatey-carcassonne/)
boardgamegeek.com: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/171499/cacao (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/171499/cacao)
Paul
Edit: Hotlinked an image. :@
(http://dailyworkerplacement.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/cacaoa-1140x840.jpg)
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The "number of meeples on a tile side" mechanic shares something conceptually with Tongiaki.
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I got to play this with my wife today for the first time. The game mechanics is very simple; the rules are elegant.
Our 2-player game only took about 15-20 minutes, which was nice and quick. I wasn't blown away by the strategy, although it is similar to Carcassonne, I suspect the trick must be knowing which Action tiles you and your opponent have remaining. This will probably allow you to determine best choices; but this seemed straight-forward during play, so moves were fast. In a 2-player game it is not possible to count Jungle-Tiles, because you will probably not play all of them during the game.
I didn't like the River mechanic, it seemed like a simple way to buff scores; rather than grow, sell Cacao.
The production quality is fantastic. Tiles are very similar to Carcassonne tiles (I wouldn't be surprised to find out they came from the same machine). The Meeple are official HiG ones. The Box Inlay is very pleasing, all the tokens and meeple fit nicely.
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Nice, Decar. I've unboxed it myself but still not had a chance to play it yet. :yellow-meeple:
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Im pretty curious, looks like a nice game!
Maybe i will get this somewhere in the new year..
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here comes the test with a tile from CC and a tile from Cacao- both tiles fit perfectly into the frame.
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I wasn't blown away by the strategy, although it is similar to Carcassonne, I suspect the trick must be knowing which Action tiles you and your opponent have remaining.
Everything I've read about it says it's quite a bit simpler than Carcassonne, strategy-wise. That's one of the reasons I'm interested in it actually, because it could be a gateway game for my non-Carcassonne fan wife.
The production quality is fantastic.
Great to hear. Plus, because it's a new game, there's still 13 years to go before they bring out a crappy v2.0. >:D
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I hear the Spanish publishers are making an expansiom to improve the 2.0 art work.
Picture attached.
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So today we finally got a chance to try Cacao for the first time. We played it twice (2x 4-player games) and I must say it was a really fun game!
It's fast paced and easy to learn with some very thoughtful tactics and variety to score points (earn gold coins).
First round my brother won with a lead of 57-something points (I came 2nd).
Second round I won with 42 points and my sister and brother both got 41 points each! Intense. :)
(http://sydby.com/carcassonne/screenshots/games/20160110_Cacao__DSC_0105__1024.jpg)
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Looks like some good games Paul!
I really like this game. It's a quick fun game to play and certainly has interesting decision regarding which resource to go for, or whether you should block opponents from getting tiles they need, or even down to whether to use up the tiles that are in the draw pile.
I think the overlaying at the end of the game really adds a lot to the game too and this can really swing a game I think. I heard they are brining out an expansion in the spring and I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with the mechanics.
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I love expansions, especially to games you like. ^-^
Now that I've played it, and enjoyed it, I am keen on getting Volcanoes. I already have the Brettspiel Calendar expansion. :(y)
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Here's something great about volcanoes.... nothing goes to waste:
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2727881/cacao-volcanoes
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I like this game too. Expansion Chocolatl is going to be released at Spielwarenmesse Nurnberg this month.
Looking forward to that.
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Wow, no messing about: that was quick.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/191540/cacao-chocolatl
Sounds like there are some good add ons here!
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Oh cool! The only question for me is whether I can wait long enough to ask for the base game for my birthday (end of Feb), or if I just buy it myself ASAP.
Edit: I held the French filosofia version in my hands today (for CHF35) ... but decided against it in favour of waiting for an English or Spanish edition. Luckily I'll be in both the UK and Spain next month :)
Edit 2: I just gave my wife my birthday wishlist with both Cacao and Isle of Skye on it, so there'll be no more temptation for me to buy it.
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So, if I have this right, the expansions for Cacao so far are:
Advent Calendar 2015 (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2209.msg31815#msg31815): two-tile mini-expansion; one with a large market (5 gold per cacao fruit) and the other with a golden temple (8 points for winning it).
Volcanoes (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/183499/cacao-volcanoes): three-tile mini-expansion where the volcano tiles replace the gold mine tiles.
Chocolate (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/191540/cacao-chocolatl) (Chocolatl): full-size expansion with four modules (chocolate, huts, irrigation, maps). To be released at the Nuremberg Toy Fair in late January 2016.
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And a promo postcard given to Patreon Backers:
Cacao: Die Lichtung
Check out the BBG: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/171499/cacao
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Volcanoes is now available in thee BGGStore (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-volcanoes). Get it while it's hot.
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Volcanoes is now available in thee BGGStore (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-volcanoes). Get it while it's hot.
Great tip, thanks!! I just ordered it even though I don't actually have the base game yet! (Just in case it disappears...)
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Oh cool! The only question for me is whether I can wait long enough to ask for the base game for my birthday (end of Feb), or if I just buy it myself ASAP.
Edit: I held the French filosofia version in my hands today (for CHF35) ... but decided against it in favour of waiting for an English or Spanish edition. Luckily I'll be in both the UK and Spain next month :)
Edit 2: I just gave my wife my birthday wishlist with both Cacao and Isle of Skye on it, so there'll be no more temptation for me to buy it.
Both are great games for the smaller gaming group. Cacao works great no matter if 2, 3 or 4 players. We've yet tried Isle of Skye, though, and can't wait to try it out.
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Volcanoes is now available in thee BGGStore (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-volcanoes). Get it while it's hot.
Just came on to let people know but you beat me to it =P I've placed an order too and picked up the walled city promo cards for dominion (so I can have Carcassonne in more places!).
It's kind of odd being around whilst these promos etc are being released and having a shot at buying them for a normal price!
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It's kind of odd being around whilst these promos etc are being released and having a shot at buying them for a normal price!
+1 to that! I bought the expansion for 7 Wonders: Duel not because I particularly wanted it, but because I'll be annoyed when I see it going for crazy prices and know that I could have got it for a couple of Euros. If that doesn't happen, it's only a couple of Euros and I have a cool thing!
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Guys! Can we get back on track here?! I can't stand the strain on the pocket book :o ;D ;D
I really like the look of Medina. Another one for the wish list ^-^
Back on track, I also order Volcanos from BGG store!!!
I really don't mind going off the rails
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The Cacao expansion from Brettspiel Calendar is now available here in Sweden thru the stores. I suppose this is true to many stores worldwide or at least Europe now.
This would be a great opportunity for those not bought the calendar and only wants a few of these expansions.
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The Cacao expansion from Brettspiel Calendar is now available here in Sweden thru the stores. I suppose this is true to many stores worldwide or at least Europe now.
Good to know, thanks! I might ask my Swedish representative [i.e. you :) ] to send me a copy! Although I see that there are still a few copies on the BGG marketplace for €5 or thereabouts too.
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The Cacao expansion from Brettspiel Calendar is now available here in Sweden thru the stores. I suppose this is true to many stores worldwide or at least Europe now.
Good to know, thanks! I might ask my Swedish representative [i.e. you :) ] to send me a copy! Although I see that there are still a few copies on the BGG marketplace for €5 or thereabouts too.
It's available here for 40 Swedish Krona, that's about 4.30 Euro (not including shipping which probably is 2 Euro or something)
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At cliquenabend.de is a photo from the new expansions for Cacao.
Mini expansion - Cacao - Die Lichtung (http://cliquenabend.de/galerie/games/6369.html)
and there is a picture of the first big expansion
Cacao - 1st expansion - Chocolatl (http://cliquenabend.de/galerie/games/6448.html)
a video from the 1st expansion at cliquenabend.de - start at 4:39 with Cacao-Chocolatl - in German
cliquenabend - video new games from Abacus Spiele (http://www.cliquenabend.de/videos/257200-N%26uuml%3Brnberger-Spielwarenmesse-2016.html)
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My copy of volcanoes arrived yesterday, a lot quicker than I was expecting! I haven't had a chance to play it yet but it looks like a nice variant and I have to say that the insert for the box alone makes it worth the money for me! Nice to not have to remove all that cardboard each time.
Also thanks for the links Kettlefish :) the video is interesting, and I'm looking forward to this first expansion. Bit disappointed that the new tiles replace ones in the game already so we don't get a longer game, or more worker tiles, as an option but it should still be good!
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German Amazon lists March 31 as the release date for Cacao: Chocolatl (http://www.amazon.de/ABACUSSPIELE-06162-Cacao-Chocolatl-Erweiterung/dp/B01AIBILU6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1454343125&sr=8-1&keywords=cacao+chocolatl), the first major expansion for Cacao.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160201/5fafa957ed0572fb734cd6c6a9ab6b40.jpg)
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I'm definately getting the expansion. Most curious!
As I see it, it was several mini expansions you can implement whichever you want to have mor variation for each game.
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As I see it, it was several mini expansions you can implement whichever you want to have mor variation for each game.
Yep, exactly. Here is the BGG description (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/191540/cacao-chocolatl):
Cacao: Chocolatl features four modules for the Cacao base game, and these modules can be used individually or in any combination with the other modules.
1. The chocolate module includes three chocolate maker tiles, three chocolate markets and twenty wooden chocolate markers. Chocolate is made out of cacao at the chocolate maker tiles and can be sold at a high price but only on special markets.
2. The huts module includes twelve double-sided huts you can acquire during the game. They give their owner special powers during the game or extra points when fulfilling specific conditions.
3. The irrigation module includes three special plantations where you can harvest a lot of cacao fruits but must pay with water.
4. The maps module includes a preview board for two more tiles that are visible near the draw pile. Each player receives two map tiles at the beginning of the game, and for each tile spent he can also choose from the preview board when filling up spaces on the board.
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Im a big fan of modularized expansions. Alhambra did this too. It looks like some of these might address some of the 2-player weaknesses I mentioned before.
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BGG released a preview just now. It's a tad underwhelming because you have to remove tiles to apply some of these new mechanics.
The huts look good though.
https://youtu.be/BSP015ZJjZ4
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BGG released a preview just now. It's a tad underwhelming because you have to remove tiles to apply some of these new mechanics.
The huts look good though.
I'm not bothered at all about removing tiles. But I'm not a mega-Carcassonne player either so I'm fine without having lots of tiles in the game.
Also, I think the huts might be my least favourite of the four modules.
So basically, I disagree entirely with your post good sir :)
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I'm looking forward to play this again. We've not had a chance to play it enough, even without the expansions.
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So basically, I disagree entirely with your post good sir :)
It would be a dull place if we all had the same opinions! Or the world would be much more efficient. Im not sure....
What didnt you like about the huts? Their mechanic seems intriguing: accessing special powers, i wasn't blown away by randomly scatter them. I suspect some of them will be OP.
I didn't like how 3 market places are replaced with three identical market places which you can sell chocolate at. The module basically makes the old tiles redundant.
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What didnt you like about the huts? Their mechanic seems intriguing: accessing special powers, i wasn't blown away by randomly scatter them. I suspect some of them will be OP.
I guess it's the very aspect of special powers themselves that I'm not super keen on. Again I want to use the word 'unintuitive' to describe the huts. The chocolate and irrigation make perfect sense to me within the theme. If you make chocolate out of your cacao, it takes more time and effort, but you get more money at the market for it in the end. Or if you want to build an irrigation system, this is costly so you move back down the water track, but it has long-term benefits in the ability to harvest more cacao. But the huts is just: buy special powers.
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I guess the huts were meant to show a crude form of industrialization. You have to spend money (VPs) to get access to more efficient labour. "Take the cacao back to our village where our poorly payed slaves will make it more valuable".
I'm not sure chocolate suite the 'aztecy/mayan' theme. I could be wrong but wasnt chocolate a European development?
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I'm not sure chocolate suite the 'aztecy/mayan' theme. I could be wrong but wasnt chocolate a European development?
From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate):
Cacao has been cultivated by many cultures for at least three millennia in Mesoamerica. The earliest evidence of use traces to the Mokaya (Mexico and Guatemala), with evidence of chocolate beverages dating back to 1900 BC.[1] In fact, the majority of Mesoamerican people made chocolate beverages, including the Maya and Aztecs,[2] who made it into a beverage known as xocolātl [ʃoˈkolaːt͡ɬ], a Nahuatl word meaning "bitter water".
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Right, so as a beverage not like the chocolate bar on the box!
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/2859079/cacao-chocolatl
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My wife and I love this game. We played a demo at the boardgame store and bought it immediately. She wants to get the Chocolat expansions, but it doesn't really look worthwhile to me. The volcano expansion looks ok, but not $10 for 3 tiles.
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Today I received the volcano from bgg store, I also ordered the core game and the expansion of the advent calendar, I hope it will come soon.
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I finally played my first game of Cacao today. It's a delight to play with beautiful artwork and a great theme. The game moves quickly and has a nice amount of strategy for my liking. Unfortunately my wife's opinion was that 'it's just math'.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160305/fee2c7c8012d595e5e9cfa9f8988df9c.jpg)
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Carcassonne Chocolat + Die Lichtung are available at 10% off from Spiel Offensive!!!!
Limited numbers available - Paul - please save some for the rest of us ;)
https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=gruppendeal&grid=200
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I think you all are safe. Honing in on Catan collection. But rest assure going to buy one copy of Chocospansion for Cacao. ;)
Those that pre-order also get a box of chocholate. Mmm!
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Carcassonne Chocolat + Die Lichtung are available at 10% off from Spiel Offensive!!!!
Limited numbers available - Paul - please save some for the rest of us ;)
https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=gruppendeal&grid=200
So it is just an expansion + chocolate bar? Nothing special (tiles), am I right?
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It comes with "Chocolatl", "Die Lichtung" and some Pralinen chocolates.
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It comes with "Chocolatl", "Die Lichtung" and some Pralinen chocolates.
Oh right. So it's the non-tile promo that's already been released, not something new?
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Well it was only 'released' to the publisher paetron backers, you'll have a hard time getting it if you want to be a cacao completionist :p
Plus its 10% off too. I've put together a big order so shipping isnt too painful. You can save 5€ if you're a first time ahopper too.
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Do you recommend this game? I am thinking about Colt Express vs Cacao
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Do you recommend this game? I am thinking about Colt Express vs Cacao
I answered as best as I could in your other thread (http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2520.msg36269#msg36269).
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Well it was only 'released' to the publisher paetron backers, you'll have a hard time getting it if you want to be a cacao completionist :p
Good point. As Dan discussed in the 'second chance' thread, Cacao is a new game where we can see that there is scope for many expansions, so it's probably not a bad idea to snap up everything while it's readily available. But this promo doesn't inspire me very much, which is why I haven't tried to get it up until now.
Plus its 10% off too. I've put together a big order so shipping isnt too painful. You can save 5€ if you're a first time ahopper too.
€5 off and 10% off? They are basically giving it away. OK, I'll get it :P
Edit: But there's a €3.50 surcharge if your order is under €20.
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So what else did you buy?
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So what else did you buy?
I got annoyed navigating the site with Chrome-translation and left without buying anything. :P
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So new expansion - but - you have to replace "old" tiles with the new ones - I dont think this is good approach - why to have XX expansions and promo expansion w)if you cannot play them together (At least with some of them)
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Because the proportion of jungle tiles and worker tiles needs to stay more or less the same for the game to work. If there are too many jungle tiles, you'll run out of worker tiles without getting to play all the jungle tiles, and your sun disks will be useless.
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I saw a review of this from a video posted earlier here about replacing tiles when using expansion.
It is a bit of a letdown and remains to seen if this choice is more balanced rather than adding more worker tiles.
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I watched this overview earlier and actually I think it will work. For example with the irrigation module they're taking out the double plantations to make irrigation the only way to get lots of cacao making them more of a focus…I do hope some of the later expansions add more worker tiles but for now I think it's looking really good.
https://boardgamegeek.com/video/91504/cacao-chocolatl/game-overview-recorded-spielwarenmesse-2016
It certainly seems like they should add some interesting tactics to the game :D
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I just wanna make game longer with more different mechanics. Maybe in future they will release another expansion. Until that it is not my next adept for buy. Thx all for help!
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Decided to play with 3 of the expansions in the Chocolat box this evening. It wasn't great fun reading: swap the 'such-and-such' tiles for the 'some-other-tile' and then read 'unless it's a 2-player game' in which case remove this tile instead.
I feel this could have all been done with iconography, it was quite clumsy.
We played with the Jungle-map tiles, these were quite fun a fairly basic opportunity to grab some points early when the chance came up by spending a jungle-map and getting a tile you could see but didn't have access to until later.
We also played with the chocolate expansion, basically 4 new tiles: 2 markets where you can sell cacao and chocolate for 3:7. Chocolate is made from Cacao in the Cacao milking station (which removed some mines). So Chocolate takes 2 actions but work a lot more than cacao.
This might be a great expansion, but both the Cacao Milking stations came up right at the end of the game, so neither of us could use them very efficiently, so it was a bit disappointing really. I feel like we made a mistake during setup, counting out all the tiles we should and shouldn't be using, but it felt like we were missing a few goes, using the sun tokens, but it just didn't come up.
The irrigation module was fun, it allows you to spend the most expensive resource (water) in the game to generate a lot of cacao.
I still won the game making sure my water track was maxed out by the end though.
Also the most annoying thing was the Greens don't match - can you believe that! The jungle greens are different and if you look closely the backs of the tiles are darker too >:( >:( No excuses :(
There's still one more module to try, but I'm only rating this a :(y) :(y) :@ :(n) :(n) until I get change to try the chocolate module again.
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Also the most annoying thing was the Greens don't match - can you believe that! The jungle greens are different and if you look closely the backs of the tiles are darker too >:( >:( No excuses :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LzXf1TKQ
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My thoughts exactly :(y) :(y) :(y)
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Thanks for the review though. Can you post a picture showing the colour difference? I just thought that with a new game, in 2015/16, this sort of thing wouldn't happen anymore.
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Will take a snap or a scan tonight. The blacks are noticeably darker in my copy.
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(http://www.tehill.net/carcassonne/postman/20160404_181418.jpg)
Top Row:
Trading Post (Cacao)
Chocolate Trading Post (Chocolat)
Cacao Plantation (Cacao)
Back of Tile (Cacao)
Bottom Row:
Cacao Milking Thing (Chocolat)
Mine (Cacao)
Irrigation (Chocolat)
Back of Tile (Chocolat).
Excuse my yellow light, the bulb hadn't had time to warm up fully. I think it's most obvious from the back of the tiles, the black is darker - like it had more toner in the printer when it was printed!
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Equally disappointed in the colour variation :P
Also not fond of pulling tiles for expansions. I can see this is part of the reason it wouldn't come out to play as much as other titles.
I suppose once one settles on the set you like to play with the most you wouldn't could leave it that way for a quicker set up.
Still looking forward to the Chocolate expansions, its not on this side of the pond that I've seen anywhere.
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I thought you were going to say you can't see a colour variation and I'd lost my marbles :p
Edit: that was actually my other complaint. The base game box has a fantastic insert. It's not been enhanced in any way for the expansion.
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Decar,
Have you played this since your last post? Just curious if your opinion has changed.
I am planning to get it for my wife as a birthday gift. If it isn't worthwhile or if it doesn't get released here until June or later, I have to come up with another idea.
Thanks
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Hi Dirk, sorry we've not had chance to play again and it may be a couple more days. It's a tough call for you, I wasn't blown away by Cacao and I don't think this expansion has added a huge amount (we didn't play with huts). That's not to say it was bad; it's just not something we're particularly overwhelmed by. If your wife really really like Cacao, she'll probably love this. If she sort of likes it it might be better to go for something else. Hopefully we'll get another game in a few days, if you can wait.
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Don't play a game you aren't thrilled with on my account. I can wait until mid May or later of it ever gets released. :-\
I enjoy a good game of Cacao. Its like a light version of Carcassonne. I have no regrets about it, but I absolutely hate the idea of tile substition in the expansions. I don't think she will admit it, but I think my wife is starting to enjoy Carcassonne more than Cacao. Then again we have a bunch of Carcassonne expansions, so it may not be fair.
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Don't play a game you aren't thrilled with on my account. I can wait until mid May or later of it ever gets released. :-\
I enjoy a good game of Cacao. Its like a light version of Carcassonne. I have no regrets about it, but I absolutely hate the idea of tile substition in the expansions. I don't think she will admit it, but I think my wife is starting to enjoy Carcassonne more than Cacao. Then again we have a bunch of Carcassonne expansions, so it may not be fair.
I like Cacao too. I love the graphics and I like tile-laying games in general (evidently!). I like light-to-medium weight games that are simple and fairly quick but offer strategic depth within this simplicity, and Cacao fits this bill for me. And I am definitely in the minority here, but I have no problem at all with tile substitution. Actually I quite like it. You add more depth and options to the game without making it longer. But I speak as someone who doesn't like mega-Carcassonne and would (almost) always rather play more shorter games than fewer longer ones.
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I made a simple Cacao Tile Substitutions Aide (http://www.tehill.net/carcassonne/cacao/Cacao%20Substitutions%20Aide.pdf) for all the expansions....Feel free to take a look.
My main concern is that it doesn't increase depth by swapping tiles out. It changes strategy and changes the depth, which is alright; but it doesn't increase because you've equally removed options from the game too.
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Merit for the great work!
I figured there would be more substitions, so that isn't too bad. Thanks for the handy guide.
I finally ordered the volcano tiles. I was hoping they would go to clearance on BGG, but they did not.
I can't acquire the big market expansion for less than $10. That is a high price for 2 tiles that I think may break the game. Did you find it some where cheap? It came out of an advent calendar, which sounds great until you realize that you only have 6 of the 24 games in there.
I have never seen die lichtung nor do I see why it is necessary.
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I can't acquire the big market expansion for less than $10. That is a high price for 2 tiles that I think may break the game.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to why this might break the game.
I have the big market / golden temple and have played it once. I think it adds to the game, and here's why: in the base game, you're just trying to accumulate gold in several ways and these ways are essentially 'rigged' to be more or less equal. So there's no one way to score that is better than another way. You might focus a bit more on temples while someone else focuses a bit more on moving up the water track while the third player tries to buy/sell cacao as their main focus. Ideally you would do a bit of everything and have a well-balanced game, and then use sun tokens at the end to increase your temple or water track scoring if you need to. This is nice because there are different approaches that can work (whereas if the temple score was 15/10 instead of 6/3, everyone would go all out on temples), but the upshot is that it's basically an accumulation game where no one play or aspect is significantly more important than another.
If we look at Carcassonne, you're also trying to accumulate points throughout the game potentially using different strategies. But because these scores aren't 'rigged' to be more or less the same for each feature, this also creates high-scoring 'battlegrounds', such as that large city (potentially with a cathedral) or the main farm. The big market and golden temple give Cacao these battlegrounds that it otherwise lacks. The scoring for these is exaggerated compared with the rest of the game, so you need to make sure you get in on them or you probably won't win.
So personally I think this combination of points accumulation with two key battlegrounds is a good combination because it gives a new focus to the game, e.g. if you see the big market appear in the 'on-deck circle' (a baseball term, but perfectly apt for this), you might need to shift your focus to stock up on some cacao so you can take advantage of the tile when it comes out. Or if you see the golden temple in the on-deck circle, you might want to play some of your 1-1-1-1 tiles and hold onto that 3-1-0-0 to use on the temple.
I have never seen die lichtung nor do I see why it is necessary.
I completely agree. Weird expansion, if it can be called that. There are no new tiles, so as a light completionist I can ignore it. Too bad for decar that he's a rampant completionist :)
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I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to why this might break the game.
I have the big market / golden temple and have played it once. I think it adds to the game, and here's why: in the base game, you're just trying to accumulate gold in several ways and these ways are essentially 'rigged' to be more or less equal. So there's no one way to score that is better than another way. You might focus a bit more on temples while someone else focuses a bit more on moving up the water track while the third player tries to buy/sell cacao as their main focus. Ideally you would do a bit of everything and have a well-balanced game, and then use sun tokens at the end to increase your temple or water track scoring if you need to. This is nice because there are different approaches that can work (whereas if the temple score was 15/10 instead of 6/3, everyone would go all out on temples), but the upshot is that it's basically an accumulation game where no one play or aspect is significantly more important than another.
We have played this game a ton with 2 people, 3 people, and 4 people. Whoever gets the $4 market can win the game assuming that they are able to at least get some water and they have cacao to sell when the $4 market comes up. The person who can use the tile can put a 3 meeple tile down and place the $4 market in between the newly placed tile and one of their other tiles (say a 1-1-1-1 tile). They then can sell 4 cacao at $4 which is 16 points. The next 2 players, at most can sell 3 cacao for $12. In a 4 player game, one person is left out and probably won't win especially when you throw in the sun chips. Now if we have a $5 tile, you can get 20 points just with that tile. It just seems too powerful.
The temple I don't see as being a game changer. Sure 8 points is great, but you can get more playing with the water and the 3 and 4 point markets.
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To be fair I had a choice: Buy the expansion for 12€ or buy the expansion, with Lichtung and a box of chocolates for 11.49€
I've not played with the Lichtung yet, but I can see it makes sense, if you have some 1-1-1-1 tiles in your hand and you need to activate 2 of the four things. It adds a little pressure.
As for the other, I ordered an advent calander, each of the promos cost about 2€ and I've managed to sell about 2/3rds of them. I have some still available here. I wanted some of the other ones too: Carcassonne, Orleans, Isle of Skye to name a few.
I don't think the golden temple breaks anything - everyone had access to it and the existing temples are a bit weak. I can see perhaps ditching 2 temples for a gold temple + a plantation or maybe a chocolat tile or a single volcano.
I'm not a fan of the varying trade-huts, swapping for 1 or 4 coins is quite significant. But again it would work with the Chocolat Expansion quite well: Chocolate sells for 7.
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As for the other, I ordered an advent calander, each of the promos cost about 2€ and I've managed to sell about 2/3rds of them. I have some still available here. I wanted some of the other ones too: Carcassonne, Orleans, Isle of Skye to name a few.
Did you already sell the Colt Express elf promo? If not, do you know what you would want for it?
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Sorry, Think that was the first to go: check out the list here:
http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2151.msg30146#msg30146
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We have played this game a ton with 2 people, 3 people, and 4 people. Whoever gets the $4 market can win the game assuming that they are able to at least get some water and they have cacao to sell when the $4 market comes up. The person who can use the tile can put a 3 meeple tile down and place the $4 market in between the newly placed tile and one of their other tiles (say a 1-1-1-1 tile). They then can sell 4 cacao at $4 which is 16 points. The next 2 players, at most can sell 3 cacao for $12. In a 4 player game, one person is left out and probably won't win especially when you throw in the sun chips. Now if we have a $5 tile, you can get 20 points just with that tile. It just seems too powerful.
If that's been your experience, then I guess I can't argue. But it still seems a bit strange to me. Firstly, the difference between 16 and 12 doesn't seem like that much, certainly not enough to decide the game then and there. Secondly, it seems to assume an awful lot, namely that the player who can draw the 4-gold market a) has a 3-1-0-0 tile at his disposal, b) has a spot on the board where he can connect it to both the 3-meeple side and an existing 1+-meeple side elsewhere on the board, and c) has 4 cacao fruits already stored up. And finally, the stone disks could allow other players to re-score from that market at the end of the game.
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If that's been your experience, then I guess I can't argue. But it still seems a bit strange to me. Firstly, the difference between 16 and 12 doesn't seem like that much, certainly not enough to decide the game then and there. Secondly, it seems to assume an awful lot, namely that the player who can draw the 4-gold market a) has a 3-1-0-0 tile at his disposal, b) has a spot on the board where he can connect it to both the 3-meeple side and an existing 1+-meeple side elsewhere on the board, and c) has 4 cacao fruits already stored up. And finally, the stone disks could allow other players to re-score from that market at the end of the game.
The sun chips are only permitted on top of your previously placed tiles. So that is why the player who doesn't get a tile on the $4 market loses for sure. The difference between 16 and 12 isn't that great, but at the game end with sun chips, the player who placed the market can get 2 more tiles down and make even more money. The 3 meeple tile will come up eventually and that person has the best opportunity to get the most $$$ out of that market. My game group sits on cacao waiting for this tile. Nobody sells to the $2 store unless it is the only thing they can do. Also, as you mentioned the tile can come up early. If it does, it won't change the game much and the games where that has happened have been more fun.
In a 2 player game, the sun chips never come into play, but the person putting down the $4 market can put 3 tiles around it when the other person can only get 1. You won't have enough cacao to put the other person away as you can only hold the maximum, but at least you can block the other person for selling more than 3 cacao at the store.
The 3 player game is the most fair IMHO.
I just went looking on BGG and no one else seems to mention this, so maybe it is just me.
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And finally, the stone disks could allow other players to re-score from that market at the end of the game.
The sun chips are only permitted on top of your previously placed tiles. So that is why the player who doesn't get a tile on the $4 market loses for sure.
Yep. I meant for players 2 and 3 (hence 're-score'). I haven't played with four players but I can see how the fourth player could miss out entirely. Maybe the map module for the Chocolate expansion could make this more interesting, although (admittedly having not played it) I don't know why they created a new 'map currency' to pay with to get one of the two further tiles when they could have just had you pay in gold.
I just went looking on BGG and no one else seems to mention this, so maybe it is just me.
Why don't you post it there and see what response you get?
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I haven't played with any of the expansions, so hopefully the chocolate stores and the milking machines make a 4 player game better.
The game had a ton of currency to start with (water, cacao, money, and sun chips). I imagine living in Luxembourg was that complicated before the Euro.
Why don't you post it there and see what response you get?
Done!
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It's a shame about the colour variation, but it shouldn't matter too much right? I mean you always preview the upcoming tiles anyway and the maps module makes this even less of a problem.
I've come round to the swapping out mechanic. I'd like some future expansions to perhaps add some extra worker tiles too, but I do always find cacao's pace pretty much perfect at the moment.
Still no news on a UK release either, getting more tempting to import, but I like to try and support my FLGS where possible!
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It's been out a while now, surprised Zman hasn't taken it yet. But they haven't taken Princess and Dragon yet either!
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Spiele Offensive have some offers on until the 1st May on Abacus Spiele Games (including Cacao Chocolat), it may be of interest to some: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=preisaktion&id=52
Also many Schmidt Spiele Games are also 20% off - A lot of Hans Im Glueck games: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=preisaktion&id=107
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Spiele Offensive have some offers on until the 1st May on Abacus Spiele Games (including Cacao Chocolat), it may be of interest to some: https://www.spiele-offensive.de/index.php?cmd=preisaktion&id=52
Lucca Città looks like a steal at €2.99!
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I've been away from the whole CC shindig for sometime. Could anyone bring me up to speed on what expansions are avaliable to Cacao and where, since I'm in the UK, I can get them?
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Check BBG's entry. Or my player aide you can find here or on the files section on bgg.
There is one promo, one advent calendar promo, one mini expansion and one major expansion. Jungleboy lisred the contents of the mini expansion here: http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1924.msg34175#msg34175
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Today i recieved the game for my birthday! I really like it.
I'm really curious about the difference between playing with 2, 3 or 4 players. Can someone give some intel on that?
Equally disappointed in the colour variation :P
Also not fond of pulling tiles for expansions. I can see this is part of the reason it wouldn't come out to play as much as other titles.
I suppose once one settles on the set you like to play with the most you wouldn't could leave it that way for a quicker set up.
Still looking forward to the Chocolate expansions, its not on this side of the pond that I've seen anywhere.
Any expansion of a game is a game I like.
We stack the tiles (there aren't that much like carcassonne.) so we always pick the upper tile. In that way you can't choose the tile with the right backgroundcolor.
I'm definitely going to buy the expansions.
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Happy Birthday SRBO!
Sorry Ive only played cacao 2player. I thibk franks and dirk will be able to assist though!
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Happy Birthday SRBO!
Can't really help with more than 2 players either. We've only had the chance for one or two 'teaching' games with our daughters, (who live away), so didn't get a good sense of the game with more than two. I could guess that there would be more play choices as there are more areas of the board opening up. Temples might also get more interesting.
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We have 3 players in most games. We have played 4 as well. The biggest difference is the sun chips. In a 2 player game, the sun chips aren't worthwhile. In a 4 player game, they are vital. In a 3 player game (which to me is the sweet spot), the sun chips can be helpful, but not as much as good water and cacao management.
The best tips I can give in a 3 or 4 player game is to save cacao for the $4 store and get a sun chip so you can hit it again later. The water scale is important too. If you can max out water, great. If not, at least get to -1.
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I was going to make the same comments that have already been made. With 3-4 players, the sun disks come into play more, and the battles for the temples and the water track become more interesting (and with more sun disks at the end, more interesting still).
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4 player games without expansions a few times was played in my group.
Felt decent flow of the game and opens up the possibility to ally with another player if you like that sort of play.
The design of the game is pretty much the same regardless how many players but I'd love to see a mega expansion for 8 players and more in depth with the possibilities of the mechanics.
One example is the Babel expansion for 7Wonders which I got to play a 5 player game yesterday. Basis (in Babel exp) is to stack tiles on top of one another to cancel out an effect and apply a new one which affects all players.
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(http://www.tehill.net/carcassonne/postman/20160404_181418.jpg)
Top Row:
Trading Post (Cacao)
Chocolate Trading Post (Chocolat)
Cacao Plantation (Cacao)
Back of Tile (Cacao)
Bottom Row:
Cacao Milking Thing (Chocolat)
Mine (Cacao)
Irrigation (Chocolat)
Back of Tile (Chocolat).
Excuse my yellow light, the bulb hadn't had time to warm up fully. I think it's most obvious from the back of the tiles, the black is darker - like it had more toner in the printer when it was printed!
Two part post on the Cacao expansion. This first piece takes another look the tile comparison that Decar posted.
I finally received the Cacao expansion (Abacus Spiele) from a Canadian on-line retailer that brings in a good amount of Imports. What's interesting is I have the Zman copy of Cacao and the tiles look to be a better match. At least I could barely determine a difference, which makes me wonder what edition Decar has of the base game? There might be a slight difference here but it is almost imperceptible at least for me, (thought there seems to be a bit of difference in the back of the tile). We draw the tiles from a bag so that won't matter much. It would seem odd that they would colour matched to the Zman edition, though as mentioned perhaps the edition above was near the end of a print run.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a3/f7/23/a3f723080fcd3729b70c4d901afde429.jpg)
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Nice photo franks!
Both of mine were from Abacus Spiele. It looks to me like the printer was running low on ink when my base game was printed. It may also be some kind of production change between the AS and Zman releases. It's good to know they seemed to have resolved the issues though!
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Played our 1st game of Cacao with the Chocolatl expansion using 3 of the 4 mini expansions in the box, (not immediately keen on the Watering module for a few reasons). So far we really like what the other expansions in the box bring to the game!
Cacao needed a boost and there is enough here to elevate it a good notch. I especially like addition of the huts module. Very loosely, these remind me of the little building expansions for https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/119890/agricola-all-creatures-big-and-small (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/119890/agricola-all-creatures-big-and-small), (if your familiar with those). Basically huts can be purchased during the game, which provide a good variety of bonuses. I thought this would be too much for our first game but they played just fine. I think I purchased 5 of the huts in our game and ended with 100 points on the dot.
With the chocolate module, Cacao can be converted in the new chocolate kitchen tiles. This new resource nets greater amounts of Gold at the market, which in turn gives the needed funds for the aforementioned huts.
The map module is the easiest to incorporate and adds another nice touch of seeing more upcoming tiles. My wife and I both took double advantage of jumping the queue.
The general balance of the game is very well maintained with these expansions but at the fiddly expense of swapping out and replacing tiles for the set up. (This is the main reason we didn't use the Water module, there was even more tile switching!!)
This tile swapping is also an issue if you wanted to include the Volcanoes mini expansion with the Chocolate module. Both these sets instruct players to replace the exact same (limited) Gold mine tiles, thus making them incompatible. I asked on BGG if there was intended or an oversight, here was the response from (AS) Matthias Wagner:
When we thought about expansions for Cacao we quickly realized that there might be issues with game length and general balance of the game by just adding more tiles. Replacing certain groups of tiles with new tiles was a much better idea. Generally the easiest part to remove was the gold mines as it has little impact on the balance.
Phil designed a lot of different modules in the process but due to the replacement they couldn't be included all at the same time. Actually a lot of modules would replace the gold mines. For Chocolatl we chose a set of modules that worked very well together and the chocolate module had to replace 6 tiles total. We didn't focus on making it compatible with the Volcanoes but focused on a smooth package for Chocolatl instead. If you want to include the Volcanoes you could also try to replace 3 of the temples – I never tested it but it should work.
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1610266/volcanoes-and-chocolatl-dont-mix (https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1610266/volcanoes-and-chocolatl-dont-mix)
In the end and unfortunately, this nuisance might just keep Cacao from hitting the strides and audience the Carc has. I don't want to be to harsh here because this is still a enjoyable game and (AS) are very supportive and responsive with their games, in my experience.
Regardless we like the overall game more than ever. Other than playing with Noobs, I don’t think I would play Cacao without the expansions!
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I tend to agree. I don't think the game length is ok, but it's not adjustable, that reduces the strategic impact for me.
I'd like to see more player tiles to support large boards. I'm not really a fan of swapping things in and out for every game; as you said it's kind of fiddly (even with my cheat sheet - shamless plug).
I think some people have said they play with 2 player-sets.
It is good to see the designer contacting people on BGG though, it's very easy for designers to shy away from questions thinking they're criticism, sometimes explaining the process make it make more sense.
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Hi guys,
any info about this new promo expansion (New storage spaces)?
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/206188/cacao-chocolatl-new-storage-spaces
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I finally picked up the expansion in Rome today.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161112/9722046e44c8a43cc8bb467c9bdaa8c7.jpg)
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I love how they wrote "expansion 1" indicating that we might see more in the future!
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They must have learned from the original title of Inns and Cathedrals, which was simply: The Expansion. And I believe it's still called that in the Dutch version.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Thanks for bringing this up again. It appears as though Zman is finally going to release this in the US.
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They must have learned from the original title of Inns and Cathedrals, which was simply: The Expansion. And I believe it's still called that in the Dutch version.
But 'An Expansion' would have been much more accurate!
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A few Cacao bits and pieces have appeared in the BGG Store. These are: the big market (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-big-market) and golden temple (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-golden-temple) (from last year's Advent calendar?), and the new storage spaces (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-chocolatl-new-storage-spaces) mentioned by Elfew a few posts up, which looks to be especially useful if playing with the chocolate module of the expansion. I have the first two but I'll probably pick up the storage spaces.
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Thanks Jungleboy. I think I may pass as the scalpers have been trying to sell the big market and temple combined for $12 and I wasn't willing to pay that. I will definitely pay $5 for the 2016 advent calendar promo if it ever makes it to BGG.
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We gave 3 out of the 4 modules a go last night. We didn't do the huts which we are saving for next time.
Here are my thoughts on the other 3.
1. Maps - I like the map tokens, but this expansion seemed like the Production version of a house rule. It really doesn't add anything.
2. Irrigation - This is a great way to get Cacao quick. The tiles look nice. The only thing we didn't like is that it is really only good to put one worker on this tile. Any other workers are wasted due to the limitation with Cacao storage. My wife wishes that you could choose to get cacao OR you could get water from this tile.
3. Chocolate - This was the best expansion of the 3 we played with. It was always worthwhile to convert cacao to chocolate. My wife and I sold probably half of our cacao without converting it (the $4 market is always tempting), but my son converted almost all of his and was able to sell it all with help from sun tokens.
I think next game we will forgo the irrigation and try the other 3. I am not sure if that will work well or not since the Irrigation allows for more Chocolate conversion.
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Thanks for the review! I have the expansion but haven't played it yet, and I was also going to play it without huts the first time.
2. Irrigation - This is a great way to get Cacao quick. The tiles look nice. The only thing we didn't like is that it is really only good to put one worker on this tile. Any other workers are wasted due to the limitation with Cacao storage. My wife wishes that you could choose to get cacao OR you could get water from this tile.
Have you seen these (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-chocolatl-new-storage-spaces)? They're extra storage spaces for three more cacao/chocolate pieces.
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Have you seen these (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-chocolatl-new-storage-spaces)? They're extra storage spaces for three more cacao/chocolate pieces.
I have, but don't own them yet. I'm not sure how I feel about them. We always play with 3 players and it seems like whoever doesn't get one of those would be at a huge disadvantage. What is your experience?
I was able to get these (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/213213/cacao-chocolatl-new-huts) for under $5 on Ebay.
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I tried to convince the dutch boardgame publisher to sell the expansion, but they won't print it. Which is really sad because the game is great..
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Have you seen these (http://boardgamegeekstore.com/products/cacao-chocolatl-new-storage-spaces)? They're extra storage spaces for three more cacao/chocolate pieces.
I have, but don't own them yet. I'm not sure how I feel about them. We always play with 3 players and it seems like whoever doesn't get one of those would be at a huge disadvantage. What is your experience?
It just arrived a couple of days ago and I don't have the game or the expansion with me currently, so I haven't opened it yet. I hadn't actually realised that there were only two.
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Just heard about Cacao getting another expansion. The Diamonds or something.
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After I saw this from you I headed over to BGG and ... lo and behold ... you are right (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/231967/cacao-diamante)!
And I haven't even played with Chocolatil yet!
I think Decar will like this part: With the "Big Game" variant, you can even play with all modules of both expansions and the base game.
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Looks really nice. I can't for the life of me understand why I sold the base game. :o
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Looks really nice. I can't for the life of me understand why I sold the base game. :o
For some reason Cacao feels to me like it would have felt to have been a fan of Carcassonne from the beginning. It looks like there are regular large expansions as well as promo/mini stuff to collect and add to the game. So far I have everything that's been produced for Cacao, I think. Maybe in 10 years the volcano mini-expansion will be the Cacao equivalent of Cathars/CC1/Tunnels. There's also something coming in the advent calendar this year.
Now I just need to get it to the table more often.
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Looks really nice. I can't for the life of me understand why I sold the base game. :o
For some reason Cacao feels to me like it would have felt to have been a fan of Carcassonne from the beginning. It looks like there are regular large expansions as well as promo/mini stuff to collect and add to the game. So far I have everything that's been produced for Cacao, I think. Maybe in 10 years the volcano mini-expansion will be the Cacao equivalent of Cathars/CC1/Tunnels. There's also something coming in the advent calendar this year.
Now I just need to get it to the table more often.
Which reminds me, I sold my copy of Cacao with the Volcano expansion. ::)
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Surprised no one else mentioned this sooner
'Cacao - Diamante' arrives this year at Essen.
English Rules: http://www.abacusspiele.de/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Cacao_Diamante_Rules.pdf
Four more expansion modules:
The gem mines - Set Collection game. You randomly shake gems out of a cart, add them to a tile. Workers take gems. 4colours = 1 mask. marks == points.
The tree of life - Allows you to take gold from a tree.
The Emperor's favor - A new wooden piece that can move around the board and score the owner some gold (a bit like the Carcassonne Fairy).
The new workers. - Variant worker tiles
All of them can now be played with the last expansion to make: a 'Big Game' Variant. 2-player rules for the big game are missing, because there are not enough tiles, however the designer has made some recommendations on bgg.
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Cacao is now on Board Game Arena!
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Hey, any ideas where can I find the game in Germany? and send it to my girlfriend living in Germany? She really loves the game but I can't find it anywhere here. I'm ready to pay if anyone's willing to sell and send it to my girlfriend's property in Germany (https://tranio.com/germany/). She's gonna love it!
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Couture, please don't request that people on the forum print you a copy of the game.
There are serval copies available on the marketplace on Boardgamegeek.