Author Topic: Halflings interaction with other expansions.  (Read 12972 times)

Offline SRBO

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Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« on: October 30, 2014, 05:31:35 AM »
 ~ Updated.. Rules are not what I was thinking..

See post KettleFish Below


Quote
Hello Guys,

So I've come across some interactions between halflings and other expansions and i want to point them out.
Just to be clear: these are not official yet..

Monasteries

As you can see in the picture below the halflings make gaps. these gaps stop the counting of the monasteries. This will make it easier to stop the heavy pointmaking monasteries to be fully scored.
So these work perfectly together.



Plague

In picture below you can see a set up of some tiles with the plague.
the upper tile can only be infected if both halflings are there.
if like the left side, they aren't put down together you make it harder for the outbreak to grow.


Abbey

Thanks to jungleboy to find this out!

In picture below you can clearly see that the abbey can put down only if ALL 4 sides can be connected!


Finishing a City

as the halfling is officialy 1 tile you score 14 points instead of 12 in picture below.


Cloisters and Darmstadt.

Well, this is one I really don't know. does gray score 6, 7 or 8 points? considering that tile "8" isnt really connected to the cloister.
also does the tile "7?" be added to the counting?
IF yes. then green scores another 3 points because of darmstadt and gray gets 8 points.



In picture below this problem is not attended. because both tiles in the rightcorner are a diagonal of the cloister, you score 2 points with it.
in this case green definitly takes +3 points.


Flier

In the picture below you can see the flier. Black has thrown 2, in this case you fly to the 1st halflingtile, which is first connected to the fliertile.


In picture below Black has thrown 3, considering each halfling is 1 tile. he flies to the 2nd halflingtile.



If anyone finds more problems I'll update this post untill the CAR is ready.


Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1204.0
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 03:13:39 PM by SRBO »

Offline SRBO

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2014, 08:08:10 AM »
I hope this helps for you guys:)

Offline jungleboy

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2014, 09:23:18 AM »
Nice work finding and documenting all these interesting interactions!

But we can't create the rules ourselves; we need kettlefish to raise these with HIG and get official rulings. Though as Whaleyland has mentioned, there probably won't be a ruling on the Plague.

Personally, I still think HIG will rule the other way with the Monasteries (i.e. that one halfling is enough to keep the row alive). That would be consistent with how they treat single halflings in cloister scoring.

Offline SRBO

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2014, 10:00:53 AM »
Nice work finding and documenting all these interesting interactions!

But we can't create the rules ourselves; we need kettlefish to raise these with HIG and get official rulings. Though as Whaleyland has mentioned, there probably won't be a ruling on the Plague.

Personally, I still think HIG will rule the other way with the Monasteries (i.e. that one halfling is enough to keep the row alive). That would be consistent with how they treat single halflings in cloister scoring.

Hmm.. I just assumed that the interactions would be like this. personally i think this is the best rule for Monasteries. and all of the interactions stating that the tiles need to be connected.. and a gap in my opinion isnt a connection.

ofcourse they need to get raised with HIG. but there now is a list with interactions
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 10:03:10 AM by SRBO »

Offline SRBO

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2014, 10:07:00 AM »
Also, there are so many publishers these day.. its a bit sick to get every interaction official..

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2014, 10:17:49 AM »
SRBO,
can you please create an example with a normal cloister?

You have created many examples with special expansions like the plague the darmstadt mini...

Please create some examples with the minis from HiG/CundCo...  ;D

It is for me easier to answer first for the expansions from HiG/CundCo.

Offline SRBO

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2014, 10:51:14 AM »
SRBO,
can you please create an example with a normal cloister?

You have created many examples with special expansions like the plague the darmstadt mini...

Please create some examples with the minis from HiG/CundCo...  ;D

It is for me easier to answer first for the expansions from HiG/CundCo.

Yes, i will!

Offline eddebaby

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 11:01:52 AM »
It's my understanding that a "tile", when it comes to interactions with the halflings, means the square area where either a normal, half tile or two half tiles is located. The "gaps" left by the use of a single triangle tile are only relevant in regards to completion/continuation of features (roads/farms/cities).

I base this on the way the rules describe the halflings and cloisters:
Quote from: Wamboyil's English translation of the Rules
Cloisters: When playing with this expansion, a cloister is considered to be completed even if one or more of its surrounding tiles are triangular tiles. In this case, a triangular tile scores as a normal landscape tile (1 point per tile surrounding the cloister). If there are 2 triangular tiles in the same square “space”, they still only count as 1 point (together) for scoring a cloister.

If that's correct then:

In the first picture, you would count 1, 2, 3 (the two triangle tiles), 4 rather than - 1,2,3,4,5 where 3 and 4 are the two triangle tiles.

In the "finishing a City" picture, city parts 4 and 5 only count as one tile.

In the "Cloisters and Darmstadt" picture, Green gets 3 (for majority of meeples) and Grey gets 7 (1 for the cloister, 6 for the surrounding tile spaces that have been occupied by at least 1 tile). In the second of these pictures, Triangle tile 8 counts as a normal tile for the cloister and tiles 6 and 7 count as 1 tile.

With The Flier examples, I would also say that the 2 triangle tiles together count as 1 tile.

It might be safe to assume that 2 adjacent triangle tiles, that have been placed so as to form a normal square tile, are functionally identical to a normal square tile.

Offline SRBO

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2014, 11:13:05 AM »
It's my understanding that a "tile", when it comes to interactions with the halflings, means the square area where either a normal, half tile or two half tiles is located. The "gaps" left by the use of a single triangle tile are only relevant in regards to completion/continuation of features (roads/farms/cities).

I base this on the way the rules describe the halflings and cloisters:
Quote from: Wamboyil's English translation of the Rules
Cloisters: When playing with this expansion, a cloister is considered to be completed even if one or more of its surrounding tiles are triangular tiles. In this case, a triangular tile scores as a normal landscape tile (1 point per tile surrounding the cloister). If there are 2 triangular tiles in the same square “space”, they still only count as 1 point (together) for scoring a cloister.

If that's correct then:

In the first picture, you would count 1, 2, 3 (the two triangle tiles), 4 rather than - 1,2,3,4,5 where 3 and 4 are the two triangle tiles.

In the "finishing a City" picture, city parts 4 and 5 only count as one tile.

In the "Cloisters and Darmstadt" picture, Green gets 3 (for majority of meeples) and Grey gets 7 (1 for the cloister, 6 for the surrounding tile spaces that have been occupied by at least 1 tile). In the second of these pictures, Triangle tile 8 counts as a normal tile for the cloister and tiles 6 and 7 count as 1 tile.

With The Flier examples, I would also say that the 2 triangle tiles together count as 1 tile.

It might be safe to assume that 2 adjacent triangle tiles, that have been placed so as to form a normal square tile, are functionally identical to a normal square tile.


Funny that i totally missed that..

It just doesnt make any sense to me.. A gap is a gap.

If its so that 2 triangles are counted as 1. and gaps are not being considered. NONE of above rules would be applied.

The whole fun of it would be gone for me.. and i would play this as an house rule.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 11:16:11 AM by SRBO »

Offline Sekim

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2014, 12:17:50 PM »
As long as there's no official word said about the halflings, I'll consider 2 halflings to be 1 tile and 1 halfling to be 0 tiles.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2014, 01:37:12 PM »
I've talked with Georg Wild (HiG) about the triangle tiles at Spiel in Essen.

A triangle tile is a half landscape tile.

My first question was about the triangle tiles and the 3rd expansion. I always ask first about the gameplay with the dragon and the fairy.  ;D

The dragon and triangle tiles:
The move of the dragon is 6 landscape tiles long. The dragon has an effect of the whole landscape tile.
The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - when the dragon moves on one triangle tile - this is one move. If there are two triangle tiles - then the move of the dragon is one "step" from 6 "steps". That means the dragon eats all followers (and pig, builder, shepherd) if they are on both of the triangle tiles

(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)

The fairy and triangle tiles:
The fairy protects all figures (followers, pig, builder, shepherd) on the landscape tile where the fairy stands. The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - that means the fairy also protects the figures at the other triangle tile.

(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)

« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 02:38:40 PM by kettlefish, Reason: corrected the clarification with the dragon »

Offline SRBO

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2014, 02:31:19 PM »
I've talked with Georg Wild (HiG) about the triangle tiles at Spiel in Essen.

A triangle tile is a half landscape tile.

My first question was about the triangle tiles and the 3rd expansion. I always ask first about the gameplay with the dragon and the fairy.  ;D

The dragon and triangle tiles:
The move of the dragon is 6 landscape tiles long. The dragon has an effect of the whole landscape tile.
The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - when the dragon moves on one triangle tile - this is one move. If there are two triangle tiles - then the move of the dragon is one "step" from 6 "steps". That means the dragon eats all followers (and pig, builder, shepherd) if they are on one of the triangle tiles

(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)

The fairy and triangle tiles:
The fairy protects all figures (followers, pig, builder, shepherd) on the landscape tile where the fairy stands. The triangle tile is a half landscape tile - that means the fairy also protects the figures at the other triangle tile.

(example from SRBO - trangle tiles with the number 2 + 3)

So if i understand it correctly, just like my example if the dragon moves, each halfling is 1 step.

And the fairy protects both. Nice!

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2014, 02:35:48 PM »
the dragon - one landscape tile (both triangle tiles)

Offline Whaleyland

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2014, 02:37:55 PM »
Yeah, kettle fish is sying the opposite SRBO. Both triangles make one tile for the dragon, regardless of if both tiles are there. One step, not two.

Offline SRBO

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Re: Halflings interaction with other expansions.
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2014, 02:51:53 PM »
Yeah, kettle fish is sying the opposite SRBO. Both triangles make one tile for the dragon, regardless of if both tiles are there. One step, not two.

Ah owke.

This indeed means that all the rules above are incorrect and indeed triangles are considered 1 tile, regarless if there are 1 or 2 halflings..

haha, well then i need to adjust xd, I will update the post above..

I hoped for the other rules.. because then you could have really intressting interactions with carcassonne.
now its just a tile to fill and create new gaps or annoy your opponent by making an impossible gap.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 02:56:42 PM by SRBO »


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