Carcassonne Central
Carc Central Community => Official Rules => Topic started by: kettlefish on March 12, 2015, 08:07:48 AM
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I've got some answers from HiG (Georg Wild) by call 12 03 2015:
Question in BLUE
Answer in GREEN
Still open in RED
My own comments in MAROON
Obervet gave me the questions in February 2015 by email - this time 15 questions
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1. If a Robber is on a space with a counting follower that moves backwards (such as from a bazaar payment or tower ransom), what happens to the Robber? Does he just move backwards with the follower and stay on the board (similar to what happens with robber/rogue points)?
Yes the Robber moves backwards together with the counting follower. But the player from the Robber doesn't lose points.
If the Robber stands on a score field with two counting followers, than the Robber has the choice if he goes backwards with one counting follower or the Robber still stands together with the remaining counting follower.
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2. When playing with both the Halflings I and Halflings II, do players draw 2 tiles each or 4 tiles each (2 from each set)?
Technically Halflings I and Halflings II are two separate mini-expansions but with the same rules.
Georg Wild and I what should the best answer. In the rules of each mini you read - 2 tiles. Does that really mean 4 triangle tiles (2+2) total?
Georg Wild prefers 2 total - especially if the mini is played with only the base game.
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3a. When playing Halflings with fewer than 6 players, do all players still only draw 2 tiles...?
Yes, see the preparation or setup for this expansion.
3b. When playing Halflings with fewer than 6 players,... or do they draw however many are available for all players (i.e., 4 players draw 3 each, 3 players draw 4, and two players draw 6)?
No, there is no word about it in the rules.
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4. Can an Abbey be placed in a square beside a triangle tile if that triangle tile is not leaning against the proposed placement location of the Abbey (i.e., it isn't visually creating a square)?
Yes, the Abbey can be placed.
see the examples in the picture.
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5a. Do half-tile holes in the map stop the chain of scoring for German and Dutch/Belgian Monasteries? (Probably not, since cloisters are complete even with only one Halfling tile.)
The triangle tiles uses the place of a regular landscape tile. That means a single triangle hole doesn't stop the rows for scoring for the German Monasteries.
Only a hole of a complete regular landscape tile interrupts the scoring.
5b.Similarly, does a Halfling gap prevent spread of the Plague in that direction? (Again, probably not, as a lone Halfling seems to have full-tile status.)
Sorry this part we didn't read - that means it is open
Obervet,
Please don't put two different questions into one point - then it happens that something get lost for our clarification... - It is easier for us if you use two more question points than to put many questions into one question point.
What has the plague to do with the German Monasteries?
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5a. Do half-tile holes in the map stop the chain of scoring for German and Dutch/Belgian Monasteries? (Probably not, since cloisters are complete even with only one Halfling tile.)
The triangle tiles uses the place of a regular landscape tile. That means a single triangle hole doesn't stop the rows for scoring for the German Monasteries.
Only a hole of a complete regular landscape tile interrupts the scoring.
5b.Similarly, does a Halfling gap prevent spread of the Plague in that direction? (Again, probably not, as a lone Halfling seems to have full-tile status.)
Sorry this part we didn't read - that means it is open
Obervet,
Please don't put two different questions into one point - then it happens that something get lost for our clarification... - It is easier for us if you use two more question points than to put many questions into one question point.
What has the plague to do with the German Monasteries?
The Plague doesn't have anything to do with the Monasteries directly. I was thinking of the Halflings as the subject of the question, so in simplest form, the question(s) would have read "How do the Halflings interact with Monasteries and the Plague in terms of apparent interruptions in the geography?" That's why I put those 2 parts in the same question. However, based on the answer to the first part, it seems that the Plague question is answered anyway (a triangle hole is functionally not a hole at all).
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6. When playing with Darmstadt expansion, do the points for the Convention Centre also get distributed to all players in the event of a tie (I'd assume this is a yes)?
In the German rules is no word about "distributed" points. Each of the players with the majority in that city get 3 points.
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7. When playing with Darmstadt expansion, do the two religious buildings function as cloisters in all cases (e.g., when playing with The Cults or Wheel of Fortune)?
Yes, if this mini expansion is played together with other expansions.
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Clarifications up to this point have been added to the upcoming CAR.
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8. If multiple features are completed with a single tile placement and all points go to one player, that player chooses what order the features are scored in. But how is it determined which order scoring occurs in if different players are receiving points? This matters for purposes of scoring with the teacher, as points are awarded for the NEXT completed feature.
The owner of the teacher decide which of the scoring he likes to score.
example: GREEN has the teacher
With the placement of a tile following features have been finished at the same time:
a city - score 6 points - owned by BLUE
a road - score 4 points - owned by RED
Green decided to score for the teacher the 6 points from the city of BLUE.
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9. If a tile with a dragon icon is placed and extends one's field with a shepherd, does the expand/herd flock action happen first, or does the dragon move first? All we know is that both occur after a player has the opportunity to place a figure. The order of events here would be important, as the dragon eats shepherds and sheep…
The Shepherd can decide if he expand his herd or not - before the Dragon starts with his dragon move.
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10. Does the abbot from Carcassonne II count as a follower for the purposes of going through a magic portal, acting as a flier, etc.?
Yes, the figure Abbot is a follower. That means, the Abbot can use the Magic Portal and can use the flying machine. The Abbot can only be placed on a cloister or garden. Even with the flying machine the Abbot can land on a garden (simular to the cloister).
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11. Can the abbot from Carcassonne II be placed on a tower? (Presumably not, since he must be played to a monastery or garden.)
The figure Abbot is a follower. That means the Abbot can be placed on a tower, but it is a waste to abstain from the special property of the Abbot. Also it would not easy to put the Abbot on the top of a tower tile.
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12. When there is a builder double turn, can a knight be removed from a besieged city in each part of the double turn, or only once overall?
Yes a knight can be removed from a besieged city in each part of the builder double turn.
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13. If a tile is placed to extend a builder’s feature, thus presumably granting the builder turn, but the builder is removed before the builder turn occurs (such as a removal caused by the dragon eating the related follower), does the builder turn still occur? (It certainly seems that it should, as the builder may not be present if the extension of the feature also completed the feature.)
Yes, the second part of the double tourn take place, because the builder was there to extended the feature with the placement of the first landscape tile.
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14. What happens when a player is in possession of the Teacher, and another (unoccupied) road from the school is completed before any points are scored? Presumably the holder of the Teacher receives those points for the unoccupied road, as other expansions (castles, Count) indicate that all completed features “score,” even if nobody receives the points.
No, there are no points for the player who finished the (unoccupied) school road and also no scoring points for the owner of the teacher. The teacher goes back to the school and the ohter player who finished the school road gets the teacher.
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15. Okay, this is the last question for today, but updating the CAR made me think of this: In New Carcassonne, if you don't place a follower, you can take back your abbot during the Move Wood phase and score points. Does the scoring occur immediately during the Move Wood phase (like the Shepherd herding the flock, and potentially making another round of scoring for Messages), or does the scoring happen in the normal Scoring phase (more like the placement of a barn)?
The scoring occur immediately after the Abbot was taken back (move wood phase). That means, the dragon can't eat the Abbot and the Messages gets again a scoring round. After that the normal scoring phase takes place (score finished features).
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I have finished the clarification of rules - 12 03 2015.
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11. Can the abbot from Carcassonne II be placed on a tower? (Presumably not, since he must be played to a monastery or garden.)
The figure Abbot is a follower. That means the Abbot can be placed on a tower, but it is a waste to abstain from the special property of the Abbot. Also it would not easy to put the Abbot on the top of a tower tile.
In my opinion, this goes in contradiction with footnote 242:
Question: Can the mayor, the wagon, or the barn be placed on top of a tower? Answer: No, the deployment of these figures is limited to the features described in the rules.
Mayor also is a follower, but it cannot be placed on the top of the tower.
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11. Can the abbot from Carcassonne II be placed on a tower? (Presumably not, since he must be played to a monastery or garden.)
The figure Abbot is a follower. That means the Abbot can be placed on a tower, but it is a waste to abstain from the special property of the Abbot. Also it would not easy to put the Abbot on the top of a tower tile.
In my opinion, this goes in contradiction with footnote 242:
Question: Can the mayor, the wagon, or the barn be placed on top of a tower? Answer: No, the deployment of these figures is limited to the features described in the rules.
Mayor also is a follower, but it cannot be placed on the top of the tower.
I know this footnote 242 - that came from mjharper.
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Thanks for all the updates kettlefish! Merit for you :(y)
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11. Can the abbot from Carcassonne II be placed on a tower? (Presumably not, since he must be played to a monastery or garden.)
The figure Abbot is a follower. That means the Abbot can be placed on a tower, but it is a waste to abstain from the special property of the Abbot. Also it would not easy to put the Abbot on the top of a tower tile.
In my opinion, this goes in contradiction with footnote 242:
Question: Can the mayor, the wagon, or the barn be placed on top of a tower? Answer: No, the deployment of these figures is limited to the features described in the rules.
Mayor also is a follower, but it cannot be placed on the top of the tower.
Not sure about the abbot but on the mayor argument in my opinion it make sense not allowing the Mayor on top of the tower, since the "value" of the Mayor as a follower is given by the pennants on the city, unless the tower is on the cccc tile (with pennant) I would no consider the Mayor as playable, the same way it can be placed on roads.
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Thanks for these great rules updates, kettlefish!
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Thank you for all of these clarifications, kettlefish! However, there are two of the rulings that i don't like.
11. Can the abbot from Carcassonne II be placed on a tower? (Presumably not, since he must be played to a monastery or garden.)
The figure Abbot is a follower. That means the Abbot can be placed on a tower, but it is a waste to abstain from the special property of the Abbot. Also it would not easy to put the Abbot on the top of a tower tile.
As has been noted in comments above, this contradicts the base rule that the abbot must be placed on either a cloister or garden. It also contradicts previous clarifications regarding other limited followers (mayor, wagon). I don't have a problem with the abbot using a "movement feature" (flier or magic portal), since he doesn't end up on that feature, but it doesn't make sense to end up on a feature/structure that is outside the basic text of his rule. If we say that we can put an abbot on a tower, why can't he go in a city? Followers can go there, too.
14. What happens when a player is in possession of the Teacher, and another (unoccupied) road from the school is completed before any points are scored? Presumably the holder of the Teacher receives those points for the unoccupied road, as other expansions (castles, Count) indicate that all completed features “score,” even if nobody receives the points.
No, there are no points for the player who finished the (unoccupied) school road and also no scoring points for the owner of the teacher. The teacher goes back to the school and the ohter player who finished the school road gets the teacher.
This is probably the correct call, but I'm still not sure that I like it. I agree that the first holder of the teacher shouldn't get points, since the rule states that the points are awarded "when the next feature is completed and scored" (and castles and Count don't require the "scoring" part of the equation). The rule also states that the teacher is returned to the school "after scoring points with the teacher." Since that doesn't happen here, the first player should get to hold onto the teacher. BUT, the first part of the rule states that the player who completed the road obtains the teacher after scoring; it doesn't say that the player has to take the teacher from the school. In this case, the second player should actually be taking the teacher directly from the first player. The overall result is as kettlefish describes it though -- player 2 now has the teacher, and nobody got points.
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The Abbot is a follower like a wagon and like a mayor.
Theoretically he can be placed on the top of the tower,
but practically how? The Abbot has no legs. Perhaps placed on its side but then the Abbot don't stand on the top of a tower tile...
I personally would never use figures like wagon, mayor or abbot for the tower.