Author Topic: Unfinished river (Read 8124 times)

MrNumbers · « **on:** March 17, 2016, 02:21:41 AM »

On one website I have found some advanced River rules with many examples. Amongst other text there is one interesting statement:

Quote

The official ruling from Hans im Glück is "Try to think while playing. Players may have an unfinished River...but it‘s their own fault."

Where does this rule come from? Is it really "official"? If so, this must be included into CAR.

Linkback: https://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=2537.0

Decar · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2016, 04:05:32 AM »

It's quite tactical not finishing the river. Especially in a 2-player game because it may change who get's the first/last card of the game.

ny1050220 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2016, 08:15:29 AM »

Quote from: MrNumbers on March 17, 2016, 02:21:41 AM

On one website I have found some advanced River rules with many examples. Amongst other text there is one interesting statement:
Quote
The official ruling from Hans im Glück is "Try to think while playing. Players may have an unfinished River...but it‘s their own fault."
Where does this rule come from? Is it really "official"? If so, this must be included into CAR.

Maybe you could try emailing the address in their website? I'm guessing the page hasn't been updated for a while. The address "http://www.carcassonne.de/regelfragen.htm" points to a page no longer in exist.
This is where "most of [the rules]" in that website are from:
"http://www.carcassonne.de – especially http://www.carcassonne.de/regelfragen.htm
E-mail discussions with service@hans-im-glueck.de"

ny1050220 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2016, 08:33:21 AM »

Quote from: Decar on March 17, 2016, 04:05:32 AM

It's quite tactical not finishing the river. Especially in a 2-player game because it may change who get's the first/last card of the game.

This topic may have been repeatedly discussed, but I got bored on this wonderful Thursday morning.
I totally agree that every move should be very tactical, but...
If people tactically avoid finishing a river, which seemingly is causing a flood, which I don't feel comfortable trying to comprehend as an Earth science student, I flip the table and nullify the game. OK, that's just a metaphor. Among my friends, I'm the one who studies the rules before starting a game and who tries to remember the FAQ (I know I'm crazy). So when I tell people not to try leaving the river unfinished, they don't. And we usually play mega-Carc, so it doesn't matter that much who gets how many tiles. And we use builders anyway.
If you think about real life, a city or a road can be under construction and unfinished, but not a river. So I guess if you treat the game, i.e., edges of a tile, features in a tile, mechanisms in scoring points, etc., as pure mathematical, it's perfectly fine to leave anything unfinished. I just personally would vote otherwise.

ARabidMeerkat · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2016, 10:06:01 AM »

Quote taken from CAR 7.4, page 183:

'When the river is finished, the lake tile is placed, and the game continues with the remaining tiles.'

I would assume that since this expansion is a starter expansion (along with School, WOF, Windroses and others) that this must precede the rest of the game play.

Then again, it doesn't say that you have to complete the river, but the onus is that when it is complete, then you may resume play.

Decar · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2016, 11:41:26 AM »

and it's possible to make it such that you can't play the final lake. Does that mean the game ends?

Rosco · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2016, 12:00:31 PM »

On jcz, yes.

Decar · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2016, 12:03:51 PM »

Haha! I'll have to give that a go

MrNumbers · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2016, 02:43:50 PM »

Yes, we have a precedent already

jungleboy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2016, 02:57:07 PM »

Quote from: MrNumbers on March 17, 2016, 02:43:50 PM

Yes, we have a precedent already

One of my best ever victories!!

danisthirty · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2016, 03:03:42 PM »

Quote from: jungleboy on March 17, 2016, 02:57:07 PM

Quote from: MrNumbers on March 17, 2016, 02:43:50 PM
Yes, we have a precedent already

One of my best ever victories!!

Definitely won the "lowest winning score" award!

Decar · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2016, 04:01:40 PM »

that's hilarious!

jappie · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2016, 10:20:40 PM »

I think this would be impossible. in the Dutch rules they mentioned that you never may make a U-turn. Then it's impossible to not finish the river.

MrNumbers · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2016, 11:22:12 PM »

Quote from: jappie on March 17, 2016, 10:20:40 PM

I think this would be impossible. in the Dutch rules they mentioned that you never may make a U-turn. Then it's impossible to not finish the river.

Quoting CAR 7.4, footnote 475:

Quote

Question: With the U-turn rule when making rivers, does that mean no U-turn ever, or just no immediate U-turns because it will complicate the placement of subsequent river tiles? Answer: Only immediate U-turns are explicitly forbidden. (Naturally there can also be problems if a straight river tile lies between.)

Paul · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2016, 11:58:19 PM »

Our house rule is, the river has to always flow outwards, away from the starting river tile, thus no U-turns are allowed whatsoever as explained in the World Record Attempt thread.
This would make the river taking up more space, but at least you don't have to worry about incompletion.