Author Topic: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014  (Read 15127 times)

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2014, 02:14:20 AM »
The next part of the clarification of rules:
please don't wonder because of the numbers - I will answer the "easier" questions first.
Now we have the question #4
-----------------------------------------
4. The rules for the Messages refer to “scoring rounds,” as all features scored in one “scoring round” are counted together, and only at the end of a “scoring round” is it determined if a follower is on a dark space.

4a. How many scoring rounds are there in a turn?
If you play the "Messages" only with the base game - than you have only one scoring round. If you play the "Messages" with base game and some expansions - you can have many different scoring rounds...

4b. Based on other clarifications, it seems that there may be scoring rounds for the fairy, the wheel of fortune, the wind roses, shepherds, all normal features together (cities, roads, cloisters), and each individual message tile earned. Is this true?
Yes, it is true.
examples:
at the beginning of the players turn:
- one fairy point
at the first part of the turn - after "to draw the tile, before to place the tile":
- points for the actions of the Wheel of Fortune
at the first part of the turn - after "to draw the tile and after to place the tile:
- 3 points for the wind roses
at the second part of the turn - after "move wood" (place a follower...):
- points for the sheep with the shepherd with the action "Herd the flock into the stable"
at the third part of the turn - during the "score":
- points for finished features - examples: city, road, cloister...

the second part for the double turn of the builder
(see above, but without the fairy-point)

points from the action of a message


4c. Are there others (such as tower ransom)?
Here is no "scoring round". It is a kind of business to pay points to get the follower back.

The same is with the bazaar.
It is also no "scoring round" - It is a kind of business to pay points to get the tile during the bazaar round.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 06:51:13 AM by kettlefish »

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2014, 12:05:46 AM »
The next part of the clarification of rules:
Now we have the question #5
-----------------------------------------
5. When determining scoring of Robbers, there is actually an ambiguity remaining in the rules regarding choice of scoring order.

Footnote 444 (CAR v7.0) comments that the active player chooses order "if a single follower receives points from more than one feature with placement of a single tile," but there is no clarification about who chooses order for multiple followers scoring.

Does the active player always choose scoring order?

Or do players receiving points get to choose the order of the points that they receive?

This question is still open. It is not easy to answer a question when we have only the footnote but not the article from the original rule. I don't have the CAR with me when I go to meet Georg Wild - HiG.

Here is the rule:
Quote
• A robber must always take the first allowable points awarded (i.e. other than “rogue
points”). He may not wait for a possible larger score later.
 • If a robber is on the same space as several counting followers, and more than one of
these followers scores points on the same turn, the owner of the robber can choose which
counting follower’s points to gets half of. 444


Here is the complete footnote 444:
Quote
If a single follower receives points from more than one feature with placement of a single tile,
the active player chooses the order that points are awarded. If there is a robber beside that follower, the owner of the robber would thus receive half the points of only the first feature that is scored. Of course, if multiple followers on the same space receive points, the Robber’s owner can still choose which follower to steal points from. (5/2013)

In all my clarifications of rules - I can't find anything with "the active player chooses the order..."

Obervet, please tell me where you have found this, perhaps there were some misunderstanding.

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2014, 03:32:27 AM »
The next part of the clarification of rules:
Now we have the last question #7 (total: 10 questions)
------------------------------------------------
7. If a Robber is on a space with a counting follower that moves backwards (such as from a bazaar payment or tower ransom), what happens to the Robber?

Does he just move backwards with the follower and stay on the board?
(similar to what happens with robber/rogue points)?

No.

I have to say that I did not understand the question correctly when I've asked Georg Wild last week. I will talk with him next week again.

Offline SRBO

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2014, 04:00:08 AM »
Why is it we never ask these questions to the author himself?

Offline kettlefish

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2014, 04:07:13 AM »
Why is it we never ask these questions to the author himself?
When we are together at an event Klaus-Jürgen Wrede, Udo Schmitz with Carcassonne-on-Tour and I - following happens if someone of the fans ask to Klaus-Jürgen Wrede a rule question: Klaus-Jürgen:"Ah... nice question, please ask the rules specialist kettlefish..."  ;D

Offline Scott

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2014, 09:50:08 PM »
I'm trying to wrap my head around how a single follower can score from multiple features simultaneously, but I'm drawing a blank.

Offline Andrew the Ambo

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2014, 09:56:51 PM »
When a CRCR is placed near a cloister it could finish 2 cities, 2 roads and a cloister. That could be 5 chances to score. Has anyone ever seen that occur?

Offline Andrew the Ambo

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2014, 09:58:22 PM »
Just re read your post.  I am scratching my head as well now.

Offline obervet

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2014, 11:13:33 AM »
I'm trying to wrap my head around how a single follower can score from multiple features simultaneously, but I'm drawing a blank.

Yeah, that's a bit ambiguous out of context. The "follower" in question is actually the counting follower on the scoreboard. Really he's moving due to multiple simultaneous scores. That's been modified in the CAR.

Offline Carcking

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2014, 11:21:30 AM »
The word "follower" there could/should be replaced with "player". Then it reads fine.
I just drew the perfect tile for my MonKnighThieFarmer!

Offline obervet

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2014, 11:22:39 AM »
The next part of the clarification of rules:
Now we have the question #5
-----------------------------------------
5. When determining scoring of Robbers, there is actually an ambiguity remaining in the rules regarding choice of scoring order.

Footnote 444 (CAR v7.0) comments that the active player chooses order "if a single follower receives points from more than one feature with placement of a single tile," but there is no clarification about who chooses order for multiple followers scoring.

Does the active player always choose scoring order?

Or do players receiving points get to choose the order of the points that they receive?

This question is still open. It is not easy to answer a question when we have only the footnote but not the article from the original rule. I don't have the CAR with me when I go to meet Georg Wild - HiG.

Here is the rule:
Quote
• A robber must always take the first allowable points awarded (i.e. other than “rogue
points”). He may not wait for a possible larger score later.
 • If a robber is on the same space as several counting followers, and more than one of
these followers scores points on the same turn, the owner of the robber can choose which
counting follower’s points to gets half of. 444


Here is the complete footnote 444:
Quote
If a single follower receives points from more than one feature with placement of a single tile,
the active player chooses the order that points are awarded. If there is a robber beside that follower, the owner of the robber would thus receive half the points of only the first feature that is scored. Of course, if multiple followers on the same space receive points, the Robber’s owner can still choose which follower to steal points from. (5/2013)

In all my clarifications of rules - I can't find anything with "the active player chooses the order..."

Obervet, please tell me where you have found this, perhaps there were some misunderstanding.


Okay, this one's my fault. The basis for the footnote as I wrote it is the examples from the following thread:

http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=260.0

I even had a post about how the person receiving the points gets to choose the order if multiple scores happen simultaneously. Somehow I turned this into "active player" when writing the footnote. I have now corrected the footnote to the actual intent of the rule.

Offline obervet

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2014, 11:24:29 AM »
The word "follower" there could/should be replaced with "player". Then it reads fine.

Also true. I was trying to keep the flavor of the meeple moving on the scoreboard and the robber clinging to his back, but it didn't quite work out.

Offline obervet

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Re: Clarification of rules - by meeting with HiG - 04 10 2014
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2014, 11:26:39 AM »
Okay, all of the clarifications in this thread to this point have been incorporated into the upcoming CAR. (I didn't do anything with that moving backwards clarification -- I'll wait until that one gets re-clarified.)


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