Author Topic: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)  (Read 47580 times)

Offline loki

  • Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Merit: 7
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2015, 10:14:25 AM »
I think there could be a lot of enjoyment to be had by more casual gamers just by being exposed to some of the more commonly available expansions
commonly available expansions

sadly these days when you check out the stock in the local stores and online with z-man games, that is a bit of an oxymoron

Maybe you've already seen it, maybe you haven't, but having cobbled this together (with help from others) over the course of the day I've been pleasantly surprised to see how much is readily available, and mostly at quite reasonable prices too.  :)

I have seen the list and it is well done (my Carcassonne bookmark section includes cundco, z-man, 2 large mail order vendors in my own country, Carcassonne Shoppe (unfortunately no longer with us),  Game trade Magazine site and Hoard o Bits )

I am merely lamenting that for a casual player, just starting out, who would hope to pick up a set of Carcassonne and a couple of good ( T&B, I&C) expansions in his local store, then the situation is disappointing.

I myself am planning a trip to a nearby city this weekend to pick up an extra copy of the original base game.  My own, much larger city, appears to be entirely sold out (The Tower and Hills and Sheep are just about the only ones available locally). 

Offline loki

  • Duke
  • *
  • Posts: 159
  • Merit: 7
  • I haven't updated my profile yet!
    • View Profile
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2015, 10:54:15 AM »
I am merely lamenting that for a casual player, just starting out, who would hope to pick up a set of Carcassonne and a couple of good ( T&B, I&C) expansions in his local store, then the situation is disappointing.

Upon further reflection I would accept that if  the expansions were being demonstrated at a national convention then the attending vendors would ensure that they have a supply of the appropriate product on hand to sell. 

Offline asparagus

  • Count
  • **
  • Posts: 346
  • Merit: 11
  • I am a meeple not a sheeple.
    • View Profile
    • Fan Expansion Wiki
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 02:32:38 PM »
Thanks for your comments asparagus, and welcome back to the forums after your break.  :)

Re: the “Mega Carcassonne” event you’d like to hold, I think there are a few fairly significant differences between this and the sort of event that I now have in mind (which has changed somewhat from the original posting due to subsequent thoughts and discussions). Obviously I can’t speak for how you’d envisioned your event being run, but despite a somewhat misleading topic heading here, I had something more fun-oriented and less serious in mind (i.e. not a formal competition, although possibly still with small spot prizes). Not that there isn’t anything fun about playing Carcassonne with all the expansions at once, but I believe there’s a lot to Carcassonne that many casual players don’t know about. And whilst playing with everything at once and remaining true to a complicated set of rules may be fine for some of them, I think there could be a lot of enjoyment to be had by more casual gamers just by being exposed to some of the more commonly available expansions (and a few of the less well-known ones too for good measure). As much as anything else it will be a relaxed way to meet other Carcassonne players at the UK Games Expo, play a few friendly games and do a bit of PR work for CarcC in the process!

With this in mind, I can't see any obvious or immediate reason why both events couldn't be run independently of each other. The more Carcassonne the better!  :(y)

I believe the current consensus is that we hope to have a Carcassonnecentral.com room (I imagine roughly of the size of the York room or the Warwick room) for the whole of Friday. One table - bigger than a dining table - would host a very large game of Carcassonne including most of the official expansions and some unofficial. The rest of the room would be taken up with informal games of Carcassonne plus expansions timed to last upto about two hours each. We will need to discuss with the convention management the details including finance and hopefully a charity element.

So I propose sending an email something like the following:
Quote
Dear UK Games Expo team,

On the carcassonnecentral.com website we have been discussing how much we enjoyed this years Expo. We have also been discussing how much we would like to create a special Carcassonne community space, preferably on the Friday to avoid conflict with the Carcassonne championships later in the convention. Ideally we are considering a room with one large table of Carcassonne with a game lasting the whole day and other tables for shorter games of Carcassonne with expansion.

I appreciate that this might need to be ticketed to cover the cost of the room. We have also considered:
1.) Making one of the goals to raise some money for a charity.
2.) As part of the charity effort getting some corporate sponsorship.
3.) As part of making it attractive to sponsors videoing the big game and publishing it on social media. (I have read http://www.ukgamesexpo.co.uk/photos.php).
4.) I also wonder about special catering arrangements.
I realize it may be a while before you can start thinking about next year and that you are planning to make use of the NEC next year. However any input you could give us as we kick these ideas around would be much appreciated. You could reply to me or perhaps even better our discussion thread at http://www.carcassonnecentral.com/community/index.php?topic=1822.0

Offline Decar

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6719
  • Merit: 317
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2015, 02:57:31 AM »
Thought I'd revive this before it's too late.  I think mega Carcassonne might be a bad idea at the Expo.  The large game we played at Rugby last weekend, took far too long for an evening event and I doubt the average gamer would be bothered to take part in such a long game.

I think lots of smaller games with 1 expansion or 2 minis would be enough.  Maybe 30-45mins a game.  People would stay longer if they desired.  Do we have any idea what the proposal for the Championships are in 2016? I think this would help us target our event correctly.

Offline ScottMoore

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
  • Merit: 6
  • Halesowen Boardgamers
    • View Profile
    • Halesowen Boardgamers
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2015, 01:36:35 PM »
Do we have any idea what the proposal for the Championships are in 2016?

Probably the same as this year ie. base game only, three rounds of 4-player games, then 2-player semis and final. Any significant changes to the format would be contingent on getting a sponsor (e.g. there is no way we could run a championship of 2-player games because of lack of copies of the game and, for the same reason, we could not include any expansions).

I talked briefly with Richard Denning, the organiser of Expo, about this recently. We had a discussion with Udo Schmitz during the Expo about a potential team championship, but Richard said that he had not heard back from Udo about this.

Offline danisthirty

  • (not thirSty!)
  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand-Croix
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6940
  • Merit: 293
  • "First to 4 points wins?"
    • View Profile
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2015, 02:30:42 PM »
Thanks for the insight Scott! :) :(y)

I'm not aware of any other country that includes expansions in their national championships. Since they're not included at the world championships either, I don't think there's a lot of call to include them.

Do you have any idea how many copies of the game you would need for the championship to be held purely as a series of head-to-heads? I don't know how many copies of the game Udo brought with him this year, but he may be able to bring more next year and I dare say that there might even be people on these forums from the UK who wouldn't mind giving away a few spare copies of the base game if we knew what the target was. Perhaps Carcassonne Central could become the event's official sponsor?

Offline Decar

  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand Officier
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6719
  • Merit: 317
  • Shut up and take my money!
    • View Profile
    • tehill.net
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2015, 03:35:45 AM »
Great to hear from you @ScottMoore!

This is something we've discussed several times and it's very difficult to come up with the ideal scenario.

I think in order to give the UK the best chances at Essen, we should be getting as close to that 2-player format as possible.

Is the only limitation (need for a sponsor) - more copies of the game?

if so, how many do you think you need?

I'm happy to help alongside Carcassonne Central as Dan has alluded to.

Let us know what we need to do.

Offline ScottMoore

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
  • Merit: 6
  • Halesowen Boardgamers
    • View Profile
    • Halesowen Boardgamers
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2015, 04:29:32 PM »
Do you have any idea how many copies of the game you would need for the championship to be held purely as a series of head-to-heads? I don't know how many copies of the game Udo brought with him this year, but he may be able to bring more next year and I dare say that there might even be people on these forums from the UK who wouldn't mind giving away a few spare copies of the base game if we knew what the target was. Perhaps Carcassonne Central could become the event's official sponsor?

Sorry, I don't look at this forum very often. Well, we got 50 competitors this year and would hope for more next year - perhaps 60-80. So, potentially, we would need a total of 40 copies of the game. The distributor Esdevium provides copies of games for the competitions we run - for example, they provided 25 copies of Catan this year, though that tournament gets serious sponsorship from the game publishers Mayfair. We are not looking for copies of the game to be given to us (we have nowhere to store them from year to year) but just good condition copies to be lent on the day of the competition. Maybe Esdevium and Udo between them could provide those 40 copies, with some extra copies provided from other sources, just in case we need them.   

Offline ScottMoore

  • Villein
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
  • Merit: 6
  • Halesowen Boardgamers
    • View Profile
    • Halesowen Boardgamers
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2015, 04:45:52 PM »
I think in order to give the UK the best chances at Essen, we should be getting as close to that 2-player format as possible.

Is the only limitation (need for a sponsor) - more copies of the game?

Well, the point of these tournaments is not just to select the UK champion - indeed, the more competitors the better as far as UK Games Expo is concerned. I agree that a 2-player format would be best for selecting the champion, but would it affect the popularity of the tournament? My opinion is that the Carcassonne tournament is not as large as it should be, given that we got 100 competitors for Catan this year. I believe that a 4-player event is probably going to be more popular than a 2-player event, but I don't have any evidence either way, so I could be convinced otherwise.

The other potential limitations are the time - the tournament needs to finish by around 3pm - and the organisational capacity of those of us running the tournaments. If anything 2-player games would be quicker, but I don't think we'd be able to fit in more than the current 3 rounds plus semi and then final. I can't see any major problem for us in running 2-player rather than 4-player, though all of the other tournaments are 4-player (except for 7 Wonders) and having the same format for each one makes things easier for us.

Regarding Dan's question about sponsorship - I think the Carcassonne tournament could benefit from some serious sponsorship in order to increase its popularity. The Catan tournament benefits from regional tournaments held prior to the UK Games Expo, that feed into the national event, as well as a very attractive first prize (all-expenses paid trip to represent the UK in the World Championship held either in the US or in Europe). Carcassonne does not necessarily need the same. Currently, UK Games Expo pays for the first prize of £150 towards attending the World Championship, which is okay. Some additional prizes for the top few players, but some publicity/marketing for the tournament would be good.   

Offline danisthirty

  • (not thirSty!)
  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand-Croix
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6940
  • Merit: 293
  • "First to 4 points wins?"
    • View Profile
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2015, 02:26:58 AM »
I think in order to give the UK the best chances at Essen, we should be getting as close to that 2-player format as possible.

Is the only limitation (need for a sponsor) - more copies of the game?

Well, the point of these tournaments is not just to select the UK champion - indeed, the more competitors the better as far as UK Games Expo is concerned. I agree that a 2-player format would be best for selecting the champion, but would it affect the popularity of the tournament? My opinion is that the Carcassonne tournament is not as large as it should be, given that we got 100 competitors for Catan this year. I believe that a 4-player event is probably going to be more popular than a 2-player event, but I don't have any evidence either way, so I could be convinced otherwise.

The other potential limitations are the time - the tournament needs to finish by around 3pm - and the organisational capacity of those of us running the tournaments. If anything 2-player games would be quicker, but I don't think we'd be able to fit in more than the current 3 rounds plus semi and then final. I can't see any major problem for us in running 2-player rather than 4-player, though all of the other tournaments are 4-player (except for 7 Wonders) and having the same format for each one makes things easier for us.

Hi again Scott, thanks for your message, and thanks also for taking the time to get involved with the community here on behalf of Halesowen Gamers and the UK Games Expo. You guys are doing a great service to Carcassonne in the UK, and I really appreciate the fantastic job you’re doing of sharing your love of board games with a wider audience. :) :(y)

As you know, games like Catan and 7 Wonders don’t really work so well/ at all with 2 players and are designed for larger groups, whereas Carcassonne can be played with any number of players. Whilst 4-player games may be more convenient in the context of a tournament, I do feel that the UK championships would be more popular with 2-player games as players will have more involvement in each of their games as a consequence of getting to place more tiles (36/35 rather than 18/17) and will likely get to play more games since 2-player games are generally shorter. Also, I think Carc is quite widely regarded as being best for 2 (or 3) players, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the 4-player format puts some players off simply because of this.

However, the number of people taking part each year has been growing steadily as it is and it seems likely that it will grow again this year. So in this respect, I’m sure it will be another successful tournament for the UK Games Expo. I do think that something will need to change at some point though, especially as the number of participants increases towards 70/ 80/ 90 players. Whether it’s the format that changes, or the amount of time that is allocated to it, I don’t think this growth can be sustained without detriment to the experience of those taking part. But that’s just my opinion of course.

One final observation based on this year’s competition is that there were five people with 9 points after the third round of 4-player games. Just two people had more than this (James Cook had 10 and John Stroud had 9.5) which meant that total score became a factor in determining which two of the five with 9 points would join James and John. So Lim Ven Gee and I scraped through on this, and the “top table” was complete. This all makes perfect sense to me, and I can understand that this is how it needs to be. My worry is that it’s going to get even tighter at the top in subsequent years as the tournament continues to grow, and an increasing number of top tables (if not all of them) are likely to be determined based on cumulative game score rather than tournament points won (which will simply be tied). I think this represents a problem for the tournament as it is since winning scores can vary wildly from game to game due to the relative chaos of each player competing against three others, and don’t necessarily represent anything other than the luck of the draw.

If nothing else, I think it would be a big step in the right direction to take the top 8 players after the initial 3 rounds so that the number of people getting to compete at the head-to-head stage is doubled and the stage itself is stretched out from 2 games to 3. The drawback is that it extends the time required for the competition to complete by about half an hour, but if this could be accommodated I believe it would be for the best.

:blue-meeple:

Offline Rosco

  • Duke Chevalier
  • *
  • Posts: 1624
  • Merit: 41
  • Racing, and playing hard!
    • View Profile
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2015, 02:41:34 AM »
I am in agreement with dan about the total score element.  I do not think that using the total score can be used in a fair way as it depends too many factors and skill is only a small part of that.  I have won games with base game only with only about 50 points and i have lost games with over 100 points.  This is particularly evident with 4 player games.  How about an average score?  would this be fairer? 

I also dont think that a draw is any worse than an outright win at the first stage.  I could be playing the previous 3 world champions and draw which is a great achievement or playing 3 monkeys and win by 150 points which is not difficult.  Therefore I don't think that a draw should score less first round points.  Maybe I am just a little bitter as I got a draw last year!

Just lay the damn tile!

Offline jungleboy

  • Viscount Chevalier
  • ****
  • Posts: 3045
  • Merit: 89
  • Nine points!
    • View Profile
    • Spirit of the Camino
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2015, 03:23:45 AM »
About the scoring: In the tournament I'm participating in this weekend, you are assigned points for your rank in each game. If you win you get 5 points, second gets 4 (or maybe 3), and so on. If there is a tie, you split the ranking points for both places. In this way, actual score margins in the games are completely disregarded.

Offline danisthirty

  • (not thirSty!)
  • Owner
  • Chatelain Grand-Croix
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 6940
  • Merit: 293
  • "First to 4 points wins?"
    • View Profile
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2015, 03:44:53 AM »
Yes, same here. I think 1st gets 4 points, 2nd gets 2, 3rd gets 1 and 4th gets 0 at the UK champs.

In the event of a tie, you add up all the points from all tied places and average them out between players. So, if first place is tied between 2 players they would each receive (4 + 2) / 2 = 3 points each. If first was claimed by someone and there was a tie for second, both players would receive (2 + 1) / 2 = 1.5 points each.

If there was a 3-way tie for first place, everyone apart from the player who came last would get (4 + 2 + 1) / 3 = 2.333 each.

Game scores are only considered when there is a tie for tournament points. This year there was a 5-way tie for 3rd place based on points so it came down to combined game scores to settle it and I went through purely because I'd been involved in a couple of quite high-scoring games.

Offline jungleboy

  • Viscount Chevalier
  • ****
  • Posts: 3045
  • Merit: 89
  • Nine points!
    • View Profile
    • Spirit of the Camino
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2015, 04:13:20 AM »
Ok, got it now. I had only skimmed the thesis that was your previous post. I assume all tied players acquired their points the same way? If not, a first tiebreaker could be number of wins.

Offline Curt194

  • Nobleman
  • ******
  • Posts: 127
  • Merit: 8
    • View Profile
Re: "Mega Carcassonne" at the 2016 UK Games Expo (maybe)
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2016, 02:25:38 PM »
Hey all,

So, this hasn't been spoken about in a while so I thought I'd resurrect it!

I'll be heading to the expo for the first time this year and it'd be great to meet up with people if we got the chance and to play a few games. Has there been any progress on this at all, or is there anything I can do to help?  :orange-meeple:


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via furl Share via linkedin Share via myspace Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via technorati Share via twitter

  Subject / Started by Replies / Views Last post
question
What games did you enjoy at UK games expo (or other games convention)?

Started by asparagus

4 Replies
4488 Views
Last post June 09, 2016, 02:27:25 AM
by asparagus
thumbup
UK Games Expo 2016

Started by asparagus

0 Replies
2472 Views
Last post June 08, 2015, 12:20:06 PM
by asparagus
xx
A copy of "Die Belagerer" for either "Die Katharer" or "Die Kornkreise I"

Started by Hylian87

3 Replies
10903 Views
Last post September 11, 2013, 03:04:52 PM
by Hylian87
xx
Carcassonne in UK Games Expo Magazine

Started by kettlefish

16 Replies
10329 Views
Last post October 25, 2015, 01:49:54 PM
by Decar
xx
UK Carcassonne Championship 2015 at UK Games Expo

Started by kettlefish

112 Replies
62977 Views
Last post June 08, 2015, 05:24:52 AM
by danisthirty